These messages are the accumulation of the messages that were sent out on the Blue Room email list between May 1995 and June 2000. A large portion of the information is directly from Professor M.A.R Barker. When the list members joined during the time the list was active, they agreed to refrain from sharing this data with non list members. When the list ended, it was urged that the data be made available to non-list Tekumel fans, and it seemed like a good idea all around. I only ask that if you download these digests, or have received them in some other way, please respect the agreements the list members made, and refrain from passing them around and instead point people to the Tekumel web site, www.tekumel.com so that they can download them for themselves, and see all the other material available on the Tekumel.com web site. Many Thanks. Chris Davis Moderator: Blue Room mailing list Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs CC BY-NC-ND BLUE ROOM ARCHIVE -- VOLUME 17 481: Tsolyani Language List Ideas 482: More Moons of Tekumel 483: Ndalu Clan Reply 484: Jajgi Adventures 485: More Moons of Tekumel 486: Tsolyani wav file 487: More Moons of Tekumel 488: Some Light Reading... 489: Questions About Jajgi 490: Tekumel Event at Dexcon 491: Sarku 492: Marriages and Clan Membership 493: Miscellaneous Questions 494: Divorce in Tsolyanu 495: More Moons 496: More Tekumelani Vampirism Notes 497: More on Sarku (Part 1) 498: More on Sarku (Part 2) 499: Heresy of Chu'inur 500: Sarku and Divorce 501: Tekumel and Barsoom 502: More Vampirism Notes 503: Avanthe's Curse 504: More Moons 505: Combat Magic 506: Magically Barren Areas 507: More Vampirism Notes 508: Temples and Legions 509: New Member Contributed Fiction 510: Miniatures Story ******************************* //481 [Moderator's Note: Chuck Monson throws out some ideas for the Tsolyani ] [ Language sub-list. The Prof has offered to help out, ] [ short of writing excercises, etc. But maybe record- ] [ ings (tape) transcribed to wav files could be done. It ] [ will depend on the Professor, though. ] Kenji has an idea about the language aspect of Tekumel that might be an intersting project. There are some neat ways to get a sound library established. Is there enough interest to provide the right equipment to the Prof for a soundwave library on Tsolyani or other vocalizations. (I can't believe I want to hear the temple chants again...oi!) While the sacrificial highlights over at the Temple of (Your Choice) and the social value of listening to some wretch taking the High Ride may leap to mind as really neat soundwaves...I think out of respect we could let the Prof outline the project. We should avoid stressing out the Professor by trying to get him to wear a headset recorder ... he may just refuse to speak at all while we're about it...THAT reminds me of one of Barker's own research ventures into the jungles!...moreover, I think he may find use for a couple of his 'wall decorations'', particulalry the gut scissors...Why do I remember them looking freshly oiled? If the intrigues of culture and communication are the driving values for exploring Tekumel, perhaps Kenji has a notion well worth supporting. Chuck aka Rahar Mumbling Servant to the Lord Durritlamish... ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //482 [Moderator's Note: Bob Alberti and the Professor responded to Gordon's ] [ astronomical observations. ] [Bob's Response] >If you want Tekumel to have anything like a breathable atmosphere, and >not a reducing witches-brew of helium and methane, boiling under the solar >glare by day and lit by eerie, crackling aurorae at night ('lighter core >elements' indeed; if Earth had no magnetic field, the 'Northern Lights' >would dance over the whole planet with the deadly brilliance of unshielded >radiation, and where d'ye suppose that field -comes- from? And Tekumel is >even -closer- to its Sun...) then you'll want some tinkering with that >diameter as well. You cannot forget the important fact that Tekumel is not a natural planet. When the ancestors of the Great Ancients arrived, Tekumel's atmosphere was indeed "a reducing witches brew," where the Ssu and the Hluss did play. How the Ssu survived without employing the great atmospheric domes that the Shunned Ones use is unknown -- possibly their atmospheric needs are entirely different from ours. They were not primitives, however, and may have possessed whatever serves as an analog of "genetics" in order to adapt themselves to the new environment. Possibly they were helped by the equivalent of "Greenpeace" of that distant era. Likewise with the planet's gravity and magnetic field: it is important to remember that Tekumel's day and year are not literary conveniences, but the result of the planet's actually having been MOVED into its present orbit and spun to match the timetable employed by the humans of the interstellar empire. If the gravitic engines which drive the planet were to ever shut down, the natural gravitational pull of the planet would probably reassert itself with cataclysmic effect. If these engines ever malfunctioned beneath one or the other regions of the surface, the effect would probably be enough to sink continents and raise seas... Tekumel probably once had a more distant orbit, and we know it once had a dense unbreathable atmosphere. Kashi and Gayel probably orbit as they due strictly for the convenience of the Great Ancients. And none of these orbits need to be strictly maintainable from the sense of physics... because the engines of the Great Ancients are still nudging them about to this very day. > Back to work on the Hru'u chapter... [The Professor's Response] As I have said many times, I am *not* an astronomer or even an amateur stargazer. I am not a rocket scientist! I only tell you what I see and what is reported to me by the inhabitants of Tekumel. As for the moons' orbits and periods, you are welcome to work them out, as I have said. "Cooking them up" sounds suspiciously artificial, but that's up to you. As for the diametre of Tekumel and its chances of being a gas giant, remember that Tekumel was terraformed -- and probably completely tranformed -- when Humankind first expanded into this region of space. It seemed to fit all the other criteria of being a useful "crossroads" planet, with commerce, pleasure resources, etc. etc., and the first settlers terraformed it and established great gravity engines down inside the core someplace. Some of you who have played in my older campaigns may have actually glimpsed these great machines. How these work is not my cuppa, so I leave it to you. The Ssu and Hluss are not happy with the present terraformed version of Tekumel, but they seem to have adapted. Humanity -- and its allies and trading partners who ended up on Tekumel -- are apparently just fine. The Shunned Ones require a different atmosphere, so they live in their sealed cities. Everybody else makes do. I wish I could tell you more, but this kind of "hard science" is *way* beyond my pore punkin haid. Love to see others produce it, though. >My source for astronomical data was, of course, Volume I of 'Swords and >Glory,' where facts and figures are laid out nicely... -too- nicely. The facts and figures in S&G I are not exact, of course. These were the best I could manage, under the circumstances. >For one thing, we are told that Tekumel has a diameter of 20,838 km. >Earth itself has a diameter of 12,746 km. Far from being 'slightly >larger,' Tekumel is 1.6 times the size of Earth. (If we make the gentle >assumption that 'diameter' and 'radius' became confused, as I first >considered, that would make it -smaller-.) > >There is only one Solar example that comes close: As Mars is to Earth, >so Earth would be to Tekumel. It is on the threshold of being a >'subjovian' gas giant! Terraforming works wonders! >Further, Kashi's orbit, at a mean distance of 568,350 km, has an orbital >period (assuming Terrestrial gravity, which is so implied by the >'adjustments' mentioned) of 50 days, 18 hours, give or take a few >minutes. (Gayel completes its own orbital revolution in 25 days, 16 hrs, >and some odd minutes.) > >You can see that your Sourcebook is going to need some... editing. >(Curiously, Gayel's orbital period is still 0.51 that of Kashi; >wherever Phil got his figures, they obviously -felt- right...) > >* * * > >But if you fudge the numbers so they come out right, Mr Grandidge's >questions are easily answered. Yes, of course Kashi and Gayel are full >together; if one satellite has twice the orbital period of the other, >Gayel will also be full when Kashi is on the other side of the sky, and >they will both be 'new' together as well. > >What's more, every sixty days Gayel will indeed transit Kashi (not >eclipse; it's not large enough) as seen from -somewhere- on the Equator, >as it enters opposition while both moons are crossing the equatorial >plane. Of course, the necessary viewpoint will often be in the middle >of the ocean... > >If you want corrected figures for your Sourcebook-- and I mean, 'if'; if >anyone in twenty-two years has ever called this question, I'll be >astounded--I'll cook 'em up for you. We've had would-be astronmers complain before. I can only tell 'em to cook things up as they think fit. >If you want Tekumel to have anything like a breathable atmosphere, and >not a reducing witches-brew of helium and methane, boiling under the solar >glare by day and lit by eerie, crackling aurorae at night ('lighter core >elements' indeed; if Earth had no magnetic field, the 'Northern Lights' >would dance over the whole planet with the deadly brilliance of unshielded >radiation, and where d'ye suppose that field -comes- from? And Tekumel is >even -closer- to its Sun...) then you'll want some tinkering with that >diameter as well. Terraforming... Complete restructring and inserting of gravity machines, air-producing devices, plus plant and algae species from a variety of worlds, and lots of science that still lies millennia in our future. Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //483 [Moderator's Note: The Professor gives up a little bit of info about the ] [ Ndalu clan. ] It's not easy to discuss the inner workings of a secret society -- not and retain one's life and various limbs! I cannot say mujch more than you'll find in the various sourcebooks, and even that was heavilty censored. >[Moderator's Note: Paul Snow asks about the Ndalu Clan. I know the Ndalu] >[ are in league with (I believe) Cusp of Night and ] >[ Copper Tomb organizations, but the Ndalu always seem ] >[ to be the organizers, and most feared. Some more info] >[ on them would be of interest to me, also. ] > >If you remember, a while ago I had a few interesting conversations with my >dear uncle Arksa hiVayka [Blue Room message 24]. After that some of his >friends came to see me and made me see some theological matters in a new >light. If I have let a few things slip then I hope that the retribution >will not be too great. If I am lucky perhaps only a new post teaching >grubby infants in the Swamps of Ksarul until I have learned the art of >silence. Arksa hiVayka is considered a pleasant but rather harmless gentleman by those in the inner circles of the Ndalu Clan. His information is more "surface" than "substance." What he says is usually fact, but he only scratches the surface -- the sort of thing that the "Uncle Ksarul Wants YOU" recruiting posters tell you. >Meanwhile, what can you tell me of my masters in the Ndalu Clan? You may not want to know. There are some very intricate machinations out there. My players always joke that it's the little old lady cleaning the latrines in the Temple of Ksarul in Bey Su who is the *real* leader of the Inner Circle. They're only slightly wrong. >I find it interesting that there is only one other secret society to >compare itself with that great building block of our life, the clan. Was >Ndalu a person or is this clan a lost lineage of one of the ancient Ksarul >worshipping clans? The history of the Ndalu Clan seems to go back to Great Jraka, the Aspect of Lord Ksarul that was popular in Bednalljan times. The origins of "Ndalu" are lost in history, as are the reasons for calling the organisation a "clan." If this information is still known, it is a dark and very well-guarded secret. >I even have some very wild speculations which I would like to share with >you. I have heard it whispered that in the early days of the Empire that >the Tlakotoni struggled with the Priesthood of Ksarul for dominance of the >land that is now Tsolyanu. I believe that the Ndalu Clan was formed out >of the Ksarul worshipping faction that lost that struggle. They are after >all still dedicated to the pursuit of political power; trying to grasp >that which slipped through their hands before. Probably correct -- but off by several thousand years and many dynasties! The Ndalu Clan was probably the political foe of Pavar's followers in the early, early days of the Ensgvanyali Empire. They may be still older, though considerably altered. There are hints here and there that they had to do with resistance to the Dragon Warriors. None of this is clear or evidenced by good proofs, but so go the stories. Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //484 [Moderator's Note: Keith Dalluhn recounts the Thursday night group's run-in] [ with a Jajgi. Professor, what happened to this guy ] [ afterwards? ] >>So, could one find 'Hehellukoi Vlad hiDraku' somewhere on Tekumel...? >Not as such. But a nice Jajgi? Absolutely. Nice Jajgi? Let me tell you about a run in we had with a nice Jajgi! If I remember correctly, and I often fail to do so, we were deep under a temple of Sarku, possibly in Sarku City, I forget where. Anyway, we were down there looking fo a way out when a Jajgi and a few of his retainers jumped us. We tried some spells that had no effect, and I think we tried combat for a few rounds and failed to have any major effect. We were running down the halls trying to get some distance from this guy who had become the closest thing he could to Lord Sarku's Ideal, Dead, but still alive. We rounded a corner and Lord Sanjesh hit on the only thing he had left that he could try. As Mr Ideal rounded the corner, Sanjesh took aim and nailed him right between the eyes with an eye of revivication. The look of shock on his face was astounding. To be that close to your god, and then be brought back by a Thumis priest with attitude must really ruin a guys day. -Tillek, AKA: Sanjesh hiKirisaya, scholar high priest, temple of Thumis, Usenanu. ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //485 [Moderator's Note: Steve Foster comments on the Moons discussion. ] Re the Tekumel Moons debate: A moon's orbit is characterised by far more than just its orbital period. Before you could explain their behaviour, you'd need to know the eccentricity of the orbits (they probably aren't circular but elliptical and hence move through the sky at different rates at different times in their orbit.) [Moderator's Note: I believe I have read somewhere that the terraformers ] [gave the moons circular orbits. I tried to find it, but couldn't. Anyone ] [else remember this? Phil? ] You'd alo need to know their inclination of their orbital planes (their orbits might be tilted at quite different angles) and the longtitude of their ascending nodes (which might mean that their orbits are skewed out of sync as seen from "above"). When you consider all of these, it would be possible to have some very complex relationships between the phases of the moons. the idea of "full together, new together" is far too simplistic. There is also a little matter of tidal resonances. In our solar system, we see a great number of examples of this. Basically, orbital perturbations tend to make the orbital period of one body more stable if it is a simple fraction (1/2, 2/3, 3/5, etc) of the orbital period of the other. A ratio of 2:1 for Kashi and Gayel is almost more likely than not. The colours of the moons are more puzzling. Our own moon appears silver-white from Earth even though its mostly a very dark, dirty brownish-grey when you get up close. For Kashi and Gayel to show distinct colours implies something very odd about their surfaces. Having ranted on about a little astronomy, I'd just like to say that I *know* that it's Devices of the Ancients that keep them in their orbits. I've even used one of them, The Creation Matrix, but that's another story... Steve ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //486 [Moderator's Note: Kenji Schwarz asks about the wav file on Brett Slocum's ] [ web page. I had some difficulty with it myself, but I ] [ will try it again. BTW, in case you hadn't noted the ] [ silence here, we did the graduation thing here this ] [ weekend, so I've been quite busy. It will calm down to ] [ a dull roar in a few more days. I'll try to get through] [ all the incoming mail in the next few days. ] Chuck mentioned sound files of Tsolyani, and I wanted to mention that on Brett Slocum's Tsolyani web page, he's got a ~3MB .WAV file of Prof. Barker's Tsolyani language tape recording. I've downloaded this a couple times and tried to get it to run on my Mac, using various sound utilities, but with no success -- I keep getting "file corrupted"-type messages. Has anyone else had any luck with this? Kenji Schwarz ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //487 [Moderator's Note: Gordon is still working on the orbits of the moons... ] [ As I am not an astrophysicist I can't say whether what ] [ Gordon says is right or wrong. What I can address is ] [ some stuff at the bottom of the message. If you want ] [ discuss the hard science details with Gordon, email me ] [ and I'll forward your messages to him. ] Steve-- and Chris, Professor, &c.: I'll admit to making some fast-- yet sensible-- assumptions. Of -course- all orbits are eccentric, but unless that value reads 'zero' to at least two places they aren't orbits-- they're cometary trajectories. What you gain on the windage, you lose on the shy; Kepler's laws still apply. The same principle applies to tidal resonances. Yes, again, the moons would perturb each other, but they are both tide-locked to Tekumel itself, so these effects are, by comparison, trivial. (Phobos and Deimos perturb each other too, but compared to Mars's gravitational gradient... forget it.) "You'd also need to know the inclination of their orbital planes (their orbits might be tilted at quite different angles)..." No, I don't; they still orbit Tekumel's center of gravity, and thus cross the equatorial plane twice in each revolution, -whatever- their relative inclination may be. Even a circumpolar orbit does so, yes? "When you consider all of these, it would be possible to have some very complex relationships between the phases of the moons. The idea of 'full together, new together' is far too simplistic." No, it isn't; unless they orbited each other as a binary system, itself in a distant orbit around the planet-- which would be interesting, but 'tain't so, McGee-- then each must be considered, for practical purposes, as alone in the sky-- and one having twice the orbital period of the other, would appear full and new, each and both, in the course of a thirty-day period. As to being placed in perfectly circular orbits-- well, as Steve realized, it's a neat trick if you can do it; suffice it to say that such orbits have NEVER EXISTED for any object, natural or manmade. (Which is not to say you can't come Real Close...) But as Phil said elsewhere, they wouldn't have stayed that way, and he was quite right. ('Trivial' perturbations -do- add up, over time.) [Moderator's Note: Anyone who could change the orbit could probably make ] [ object travel in any path they chose. The great engines] [ could be constantly correcting, and re-correcting the ] [ path of the orbit so it stays perfectly circular. I do ] [ understand that there never has been such an orbit, but ] [ 50 years ago there weren't any microchips either. ] Which brings me to my final point-- this business of, "... it's Devices of the Ancients that keep them in their orbits." Horse puckey. That's as bad as Newton's raptures about the Divine Clockwork-- worse, because you could make a -case- for that. Why are the moons -orbiting-, if they're not, actually, orbiting? Why aren't they standing still in the sky? Be a lot easier... [Moderator's Note: Don't split hairs with us Gordon! :) We know the moons] [ are orbiting. It's the Devices of the Ancients that ] [ keep them in the "proper" orbit (or what has become the ] [ proper orbit). Who knows why they chose perfect circles] [ (if they did) for the moons' orbits? Maybe the terra- ] [ forming department's head orbital-engineer was a ] [ symmetry freak? :) ] That's not to say that they couldn't have been moved, -as needed-, but otherwise, well, if they're not in standard ballistic orbits, they's sho' nuff a good -counterfeit-... and why bother? G. P.S. "Our own moon appears silver-white from Earth even though it's mostly a very dark, dirty brownish-grey when you get up close." Yeah, the Moon is actually the color of -asphalt-, just like any parking lot... but if you think about it, of course it seems bright, by comparison; it -is- the only thing up there. If it really were as the song describes it, "the light of the silvery Moon" would be -way- too bright to look at directly... "For Kashi and Gayel to show distinct colours implies something very odd about their surfaces." Probably nothing too arcane; Kashi, 'bloody orange-red,' sounds awfully Mars-like in composition. For Gayel to be 'emerald-green,' though... now, that -is- a trifle odd. Green, no problem. Copper oxides, to Kashi's own iron compounds, would do that... but -emerald-? Mystery... Maybe it's one gigantic life-form. A species of algae, massing millions of metric tons. (If it caught a phage, the consternation below would be calamitous!) ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //488 [Moderator's Note: And now on the lighter side... David Smart and Joe Saul ] [ send some humerous messages for your entertainment. ] >We were >running down the halls trying to get some distance from this guy who had >become the closest thing he could to Lord Sarku's Ideal, Dead, but still >alive. We rounded a corner and Lord Sanjesh hit on the only thing he had >left that he could try. As Mr Ideal rounded the corner, Sanjesh took aim >and nailed him right between the eyes with an eye of revivication. The >look of shock on his face was astounding. To be that close to your god, >and then be brought back by a Thumis priest with attitude must really ruin >a guys day. Just goes to show you...even for Tekumel's closest thing to a vampire, Life sucks... (couldn't resist) David Smart -------------- Joe Saul writes... In an effort to brighten the day of the Blue Room list members, I am enclosing a copy of a message I posted to alt.games.frp.tekumel in response to a spam offering help if you are stuck in a game. I know many of you have given up on the newsgroup -- and not without reason; this list is much better -- but some of us still use it from time to time, and I have a personal crusade against those who spam it. Enjoy. Oh, and thanks to Keith Dalluhn for part of the inspiration for this story. **** begin included text **** William wrote: >My name is William and if you are stuck in a game send me an email. >Database is over 650.000 files,maybe i can help. Dear William, I am so glad to see your post in alt.games.frp.tekumel! You are my last hope; even my clan and legion have deserted me, and the priests of my faith urge me to prepare my body for the High Ride and my spirit-soul for the journey to the Isles of Teretane! La, I am stuck -- and soon to be *more* stuck, if you know what I mean! It all started when I attended a party in Jakalla at the clanhouse of the most mighty and noble Ito. Having lost over 5,000 Kaitars at Tsahlten, I decided my interests would better be served by finding some agreeable, athletic noblewoman with whom to pass the night (this is, after all, Jakalla in springtime, as I'm sure you understand, William). Wandering down a side corridor, I came upon a small room. Within the room, lying langorously upon a sleeping-mat covered with thesun-gauze, was the woman of my dreams! Since no meshqu plaque was displayed, I clapped gently to ask admittance. The woman upon the mat made no reply, so I clapped louder. Again no result! Fearing some foul play (this is, after all, Jakalla in springtime, as I'm sure you understand, William), I crept into the room. Imagine my surprise when my langorous beauty showed no signs of a pulse, nor did her breath fog my small mirror! La, a murder had taken place! Acting -- I am sure you will agree -- both nobly and with an eye toward earning this beauty's gratitude, I called to my servant to bring me my pouch. When he did, acting nervous for some reason I could not at the time fathom, I brought forth my Eye of Resurrection, pointed it at the woman, and pressed the stud. La, she sat bolt upright upon the mat, eyes shining with strong emotion -- and issued forth a scream the likes of which I hope never to hear again! She immediately began berating me with all manner of abuse; I tried to correct her to explain that I was the one who had *saved* her, when all of a sudden the hall was full of guards in copper armor! Fearing that these were the murderers who had reduced her to the state in which I found her -- ah, William, I think you now apprehend that they indeed *were*, but I was in combat and my years as a Tirrikamu had taken over -- I took no note of the fact that these guardsmen wore their brown armor accented with thin strips of sky-blue, but grabbed the woman, slung her over my shoulder, and exited through a window to the screams of my servant fighting a brief, but doomed, rear-guard action. To make a long story short, I thought my best course of action was to -- I know, William, but remember I had partaken fully of drink and drugs at the party -- well, to take her instantly to my Legion headquarters and alert my comrades of the need for armed reponse. You can guess what happened next. Anyway, I am now in a small cell, awaiting the Mrikh come to fetch me to my death on charges of treason. I send you this email as my last hope; I pray that you can find some way to save this foolish Hereksa who attempted to rescue a very irate Jajgi from her meditations. Do you have a file, somewhere in that 650,000 that will spare me from what appears to be certain doom? Harshan hiSsanmirin, nakome (formerly of Blade Raised High) Formerly Hereksa, First Legion of Ever-Present Glory Central Imperial Prison, Jakalla [Yes, I actually sent this to him. I'll post his reply.] ------ Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //489 [Moderator's Note: Joe Saul asks some questions about Jajgi. ] You ask a lot of kinky questions. >Is a Jajgi legally a person in Tsolyanu? The question does not arise since Jajgi are not numerous or prominent enough to appear in public where they might be noticed. They are few, and their creators in the temples of Sarku, etc. keep them pretty secret. There are indeed some Jajgi masquerading as living humans. These work for the temples and usually go out on missions and then come back inside where they seem to be more comfortable. >There are a lot of implications to this question, but the issues I'm >specifically interested in are: > >-- If you kill a Jajgi, can its clan ask for Shamtla? Never happened. The clans from which a Jajgi may come are usually unaware of their "relative" or perhaps unwilling to accept the fact that one of their brothers is now walking around again when he shouldn't be. The Jajgi are usually only found in the deepest and most secret shrines of the relevant deities, although some of them are sent out as absolutely trustworthy agents on missions. >-- Can a Jajgi be prosecuted for crimes it commits? Never happened. The Jajgi works under strict temple supervision -- seems to have almost a "mind-bar" like loyalty to its creators -- and hence carries out temple commands. This gets into politics and is not usually a legal matter per se. There are no Jajgi murderers, thieves, rapists, or shoplifters that act on their own and commit "crimes" out of greed. >-- Can a Jajgi duel under the Manifesto of Noble Deliverance? Never happened. I doubt this would occur unless the Jajgi was masquerading as a human. Then it might get involved -- but it would speedily call for temple back-up to get it out of the situation so that its status as a Jajgi would not be revealed. >-- Can Jajgi legally marry? (Just kidding...) They can and do -- as part of a masquerade. They can marry each other or some willing partisan of their temple. They may not be able to "perform," except magically, of course. They are a lot more intelligent than the usual Hollywood "zombie" (Mrur or Shedra-like), and even Bela Lugosi doesn't come close. The guy next to you at the barbershop may be a Jajgi. THere are no distinguishing marks or signs, unless the creature forgets to breathe. >(For your info, my instinct would be that they *are* legally persons in all >ways. I know that the temples of Sarku and Durritlamish have rules >restricting >their highest officers to specified terms of years instead of appointing for >life, which is basically a legal acknowledgement of the existence of Jajgi. I >also *believe* that the Concordat specifically bans the use of undead >troops in >warfare -- rather than banning the existence of undead in all contexts. I'm >just not sure enough to go with it.) You are mostly correct, but the area is (literally and figuratively) a "grey" one. The Jajgi do not interact much with the living, except when on missions for their temples. Some missions last longer than others, of course, and it is quite possible that a Jajgi may be put into society for a year or more at a time in order to achieve some objective. Some less-polite critics have averred that Dhich'une himself is a Jajgi. I cannot say whether they are right or wrong. Thanks and regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //490 [Moderator's Note: Bob Dushay will be running an event in New Jersey in ] [ early July. Here are the particulars... ] [ I checked out the barker.zip file from Brett's site, and] [ was able to get it working under Win95 with no problem. ] [ I'll check it out on my mac today and see if I can't get] [ it working there. If I can, I'll let you know what I ] [ did to make it work. ] I will be running a Tekumel event at the Dexcon 6 game convention. My adventure (listed under "Empire of the Petal Throne") is called "Unwelcoming Party", and will run Wednesday, July 2, from 8:00 PM until midnight and will be repeated Saturday, July 5 from 8:00 PM until midnight. Although the game will be open to beginners new to Tekumel, the scenario would benefit from having experienced Tekumel hands on board. As with most of my Tekumel scenarios, the emphasis is more on roleplaying than combat. (For those in the know, this is NOT a sequel of my "A Matter of Honor/Against the Grain" scenarios.) The convention will be July 2-6, in the Meadowlands Plaza, in East Rutherford, New Jersey (right across the highway from Giants Stadium). You can find out more about the convention at http://www.io.com/~doublex/ or by writing Double Exposure, P.O. Box 3594, Grand Central Station, New York, NY 10163. I am not affiliated with the Double Exposure people in any way other than as a convention gamemaster. If you have any questions about the scenario (not the con! I don't know!) you can email me at rdushay@delphi.com. Don't expect a fast answer--I'm pretty busy trying to finish this thing up. Bob Dushay Dritlan, the Legion of Obscure Books 1st Imperial Heavy Scholars ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //491 [Moderator's Note: Thomas Worthington asks about Sarku and comments on the ] [ moons. I'll be putting together 1 more post on moons ] [ from a group of people who have responded. It will come ] [ about 5 messages from now. ] [ Ladies and Gents: It is a very busy time for me, as we are bringing ] [ up a brand spanking new Sciences facility. I will ] [ try my best to do something every night, but I have] [ failed miserably the last 1.5 weeks. Keep hanging ] [ with me, I have 4 messages from the Prof answering ] [ questions, and a lot of stuff from you, too. I'll ] [ do my best. ] >I would like to ask the Prof about Sarku and Change. I >have often felt that Sarku's aims and goals, at least as we know >them, are the very essense of stability: the preservation of the mind >and body. How does Phil see these goals as fitting in with Change? A >discussion of the principles behind the two camps might be >interesting. Sarku is "Change" in the real sense of slow change from life to death and beyond. He is not swift or violent, but he *is* Change. He is also an observer of Change. He delights in viewing the gradual alteration of the cosmos, while himself standing outside of it. His devotees are advised to live long and to return to consciousness after death in order to observe the effects of long-term Change. >Re: the subject of the moons & so on ,I think that many of the >astronomical objections to Tekumel are founded on very little >information. At the current moment there is no real idea as to why >Venus had a runaway greenhouse & has no tektonic plates and earth >is nice and has plates. Life may have a lot to do with BOTH, so >perhaps life arose on Tekumel quite early on in it history, >preventing the planet going down Venus' path > A terrestial planet has many, many variables even before adding >in technological manipulation in the year A.D. 22000! A planet with a >larger radius but with just as much iron in its core as Earth will >have less iron IN PROPORTION to crustal volume than Earth. Thus it >could have Van Allen belts and all the rest of it to protect the >inhabitants from UV etc but still have smaller deposits of iron. >There is, however, another possible explanation as to why it is SO >rare: > If the Ssu say, 10000 years before first contact had an advanced >technology which used up all the easy-to-reach iron and other useful >metals and then sunk into barbarism such that they were only back to >their starting place when mankind arrived and stomped on them, then >itwould be very hard to find iron in the form of ore. Most of the iron >used by an earlier advanced Ssu society would have oxidised in soil and >water until it was very difficult to recover. > It's a thought and may have nothing to do with the real reasons >but the point is that in the time scale we are dealing with and the >fact that Tekumel is an alien world almost any geological or >meteorological setup could occur. The timing of the moon phases must >be artificial, though. > That's enough from me today, bye. Good thinking -- but unsubstantiated by Tekumel data. I knoq some out there want "real" science and believe in the essential truth of "Science" as we know it today. Yet just a few centuries ago the established view of "Science" included the Ptolmaic astronomical system, no circulation of the blood, the "fact" that there were only five planets, and the further fact that the universe had seven heavens, and God sat up there on a golden throne. Galileo and Copernicus and others came along and changed all that -- but did they change it to "The Truth" -- *all* the Truth -- or is it likely that the future will bring us different understandings of "reality" that we cannot predict today? I don't know. Neither does anybody else. As I have said, I only report what I see on Tekumel; I am not concerned with "how things work" -- just like the Star Trek fans who don't care that the "Beam me down, Scotty" transporter cannot possibly work -- or how everybody always looks human with rubber pieces glued on their foreheads -- or how the never-seen, mysterious "universal translator" device makes everyone seem to speak perfect 20th Century American English, even when the speakers are lost on some planet far far away... ... And did Deja Thoris run really around half-nekkid in the frigid atmosphere of Mars? Now *there's* a scientific mystery! Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //492 [Moderator's Note: Joe Saul asks about marriages and clan membership. ] Joe seems very interested in getting married lately. Last time he asked about *Jajgi* getting married. Hmm >Tsolyani marriages can take place either between members of the same clan, or >members of two different clans. We already know that a child of a "mixed >marriage" can become a member of either the father's or the mother's clan. >Here are a few questions on things I, at least, don't know: > >1. Is clan affiliation determined at birth, or later (at, say, the naming > ceremony)? It is usually decided *before* birth, as soon as the parents know the mother is pregnant. Clansmen from both sides then start discussing the membership of the infant(s)-to-be. Clan affiliation is *confirmed* at the later naming ceremony, or in some clans, on special occasions of their own. >2. Does the higher clan automatically get the kid? The lower one? The > one whose clanhouse they're living in? Nobody *automatically* gets the kid. Sometimes the lower clan may want the infant more and be willing to pay the higher clan a price for it. Sometimes the higher clan may want the child. Sometimes the parents' wishes will be taken into account: "Mom wanted me to be in Golden Sunburst, but Dad's from White Stone -- that's why I'm in Golden Sunburst. Mom usually wins all arguments in our family." >3. What if, say, a woman of Golden Bough married a man of Sea Blue and > a man of Golden Sunburst? If she's sleeping with both of them regularly, > the only *certain* affiliation for the kid is Golden Bough -- but they > might well want to give the kid the privileges that come with one of the > other clans. Can they just choose between the clan-fathers' clans? This is a tough one. Sometimes this kind of case ends up in a law court. These are often solved by clanmasters who meet privately and decide on the rights and wrongs of the matter on economic and personal grounds. The opinions of the lineage-family are taken into account, but if nobody agrees, then it is left to almost a flip of a coin to finalise it. Economic factors almost always do include perceived privileges. >4. A man has a female slave, who becomes pregant with (presumably) his > child. Is the child a member of the father's clan? Not automatically. Slave children usually stay slaves -- unless the father wants them freed and goes to the Palace of the Realm to get the legal work done. A doting father is a very good investment for a slave-child. >5. If so, is there any stigma to being slave-born? Yes, but not to slave-children who have been freed (cf. preceding paragraph). Many slaves are actually fairly middle-class or even low-upper-class people who have been enslaved for crimes or for debt. Hence, if their offspring climb back up out of slavery, they are considered smart,enterprising, or just damn lucky. Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //493 [Moderator's Note: Joe Saul asks questions about miscellaneous topics. ] >First, is there a title which goes with membership in the Advisory Curia? Is >that where Tsemel is used? I seem to recall titles having rough >equivalency to "Cardinal" and "Bishop," but I'm not sure where I saw them. >I think Tsemel has been translated as "Cardinal," but whether that's a >functional translation or just a way of saying "very high church official" I'm >not sure. The "Advisory Curia (lit. "Council the Temples of the Almighty Gods") is a priestly focus group for issues that affect all sorts of temple and religious matters: from people selling fried fish in front of a shrine to Lord Vimuhla, to the right to build a retaining wall between two adjacent temples, to the rude and sarcastic remarks made by priest X against priest Y -- and so forth. Tsemel is largely an administrative title. It doesn't really connote what English "Cardinal" does, but remember that these European titles were taken over for "Empire of the Petal Throne," where Mr. Gygax wanted everything to dovetail into D-n-D. He thought they would be more familiar to American readers. Instead, this just confused the issue of what, precisely, the Tsolyani titles are. >Second, are literacy rates different for men and women in Tsolyanu? Yes. About 9-10 percent for males and 3-5 percent for women, depending on the locale, clan status, membership in a temple, etc. Most 'good clan girls" may have only rudimentary reading, while most Aridani can read simple letters and documents in Tsolyani. Those who are higher on the social ladder usually are literate. >Third, is there a Vimuhla martial art, or just the Thumis and Ksarul ones? Not that I know of. Vimuhla's priests consider their daily warlike exercises and rituals to be better than anything Thumis and/or Ksarul can do anyway. >Finally, are Ritual/Admin/Scholarly Priests allowed to decide to become Lay >Priests at some point in their career? And how exactly *is* a Lay Priest's >circle rank determined? Technically, if you have a *post* in a temple hierarchy, you should not quit to go become a scholar-priest. This is considered ignoble: "letting down the side." But in fact it does occur. Lay-priests really have no circle rank: that is in the game and not in "real" Tekumel. They become known for this or that scholarly or wizardly expertise, and they are then addressed with honorary pronouns, etc. Since they do not hold temple ranks they are not burdened with Monday-morning staff meetings and pressures from the bureaucracy to downsize the workforce. Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //494 [Moderator's Note: Lisa Leutheuser asks about divorce in Tsolyanu. ] >The various sourcebooks have general descriptions about marriage >ceremonies, but the only reference to divorce I've found is for >Pe Choi divorces. How are human divorces handled in Tsolyanu? >Is it different if the woman is Aridane? Divorce in Tsolyanu is the ending of a contract between Mr. A and Mrs. A. If these two had been formally married, the clan (of either) will hold a party, the original marriage contract will be produced and torn up in front of all, financial and property settlements (made in advance by go-betweens) are formalised and announced, the future homes of any children are settled, and everybody then eats, drinks, and has a good time. There may be jocular speeches, entertainment, and jokes (which the ex-bride and ex-groom must grin and bear). If there is real hostility between the parties, this party is not held, of course, and the husband and wife deal with one another through intermediaries. If there are disputes over the children and where they will live, the relevant clans are first brought in to decide the matter. An arbiter may be chosen who is agreeable to both parties. If neutral consultation fails, the Palace of the Realm may be approached by envoys from both sides bringing evidence. The only difference between an Aridani divorcee and a "good clan-girl" relates to property: the Aridani woman may own property in her own right and have to split it up with her ex-husband, according to the terms of their marriage contract. Her clan does not get involved, unless there are larger issues -- very similar to a contract between two men over some other issue. Who owns a piece of farmland, or a business, or a building, can sound very much like a divorce between Mr. and Mrs. A. A "good clan girl" is represented by her clans, and any property she has acquired may be taken over by her clansmen as belonging not to her as an individual but to her clan. Divorce has religious connotations only in one or two of the Tsolyani temples (e.g. Sarku). Otherwise, a priest who attends a divorce ceremony is there only for the food! Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //495 [Moderator's Note: The moons of Tekumel again. I have accumulated the last ] [ thoughts on the subject, and will give them to you all as] [ one big message. ] From Bob Alberti... >"Devices of the Ancients that keep them in their orbits." > >Horse puckey. That's as bad as Newton's raptures about the Divine >Clockwork-- worse, because you could make a -case- for that. Why are the moons >-orbiting-, if they're not, actually, orbiting? Why aren't they standing still >in the sky? Be a lot easier... The moons ARE orbiting. 99.999% of the time they are serenely rolling around the edge of the gravity well, obeying the laws of physics and not even speeding. Once in a while, however, it's time for an adjustment. Keeping a planet the size of Tekumel spinning at the distance and rate to ensure 365 days per year requires a gentle "nudge" every now and then from the planetary engines. And it has to be VERY gentle, because you don't want people squashed flat in Onchosh Chiran, or hurled a hundred feet into the air in Malchiran, when the orbit is adjusted. Well, this still screws up the orbits of the moons. They'd go sailing off or come crashing down if the planet were to go jumping around underneath them. At the very least their orbits would change significantly over the vast periods of time since the system was established. So they, too have to be nudged into place again. Perfectly circular? Who cares! Just gotta keep them in place... >sounds awfully Mars-like in composition. For Gayel to be 'emerald-green,'... > >Maybe it's one gigantic life-form. A species of algae, massing >millions of metric tons. You've found out. You will need to be dealt with. Do not fear, however: if the mind-bars do not 'take,' your execution with be both dignified and relatively painless. --------- From Stephen Foster.... Chris, I couldn't let this one go unanswered due to the use of the phrase "Horse Puckey".... Gordon, You seem a little confused on the subject of orbital mechanics: >Of -course- >all orbits are eccentric, but unless that value reads 'zero' to at >least two places they aren't orbits-- they're cometary trajectories. By your definition, then, the Earth is a comet (e=0.017) as is the Moon (e=0.055)! I suggest you also note the large eccentricities of Mercury (0.206) and Pluto (0.248). In fact, only Venus has an eccentricity less than 0.01. Comets, too, are usually in quite stable orbits despite their high eccentricity so the phrase "cometary trajectory" is meaningless. If you really want a bizzare but stable orbit then consider Earth's second moon (yes, we have at least two) which is a small asteroid discovered in 1986 designated 3753. This moves in a strange orbit reminiscent of an bumble-bee on acid, with no simply defined eccentricity, yet is definitely gravitationally bound to the Earth. I see no reason why Gayel and Kashi could not have quite eccentric orbits. >The same principle applies to tidal resonances. Yes, again, the moons >would perturb each other, but they are both tide-locked to Tekumel >itself, so these effects are, by comparison, trivial. Not so! The gravitational effect of the moons on each other would be quite substantial. This phenomenon is seen all over the solar system even among the particles that make up Saturn's ring. (The effect causes the various gaps in the rings, which are at simple fractions of the orbital periods of the inner moons). If the orbital planes of Kashi and Gayel are at all near the same plane then they will almost certainly be linked in some resonance (...assuming that they are natural bodies, that is). >No, I don't; they still orbit Tekumel's center of gravity, and thus >cross the equatorial plane twice in each revolution, -whatever- their >relative inclination may be. You need to know the inclinations of their orbital planes because a highly inclined orbit can give rise to some wierd effects. For example if Kashi's orbit were at exactly 90 degrees to Tekumel's then you would only get 2 full moons per year! (Kashi's orbit would maintain its orientation in space as Tekumel moved around its sun so it would only be "full" then the plane of its orbit was in line with the sun as seen from Tekumel. If you don't understand (or believe)this then try reading about seasons on Uranus from any decent astronomy text book) However, since such wierd effects aren't mentioned by Prof Barker I would imagine that the orbits of Tekumel, Kashi and Gayel are in approximately the same plane. >No, it isn't; unless they orbited each other as a binary system, itself >in a distant orbit around the planet-- which would be interesting, but >'tain't so, McGee-- then each must be considered, for practical purposes, >as alone in the sky-- and one having twice the orbital period of the >other, would appear full and new, each and both, in the course of a >thirty-day period. For the reasons just stated, this is quite untrue. As I said, there are orbits which would mean just 2 new moons per year for each moon. Even for more normal orbits, a slight degree of eccentricity will put subtle phase shifts into the picture. For example, there might only be 199 full moons of Kashi for each 100 of Gayel. >Horse puckey. That's as bad as Newton's raptures about the Divine >Clockwork-- worse, because you could make a -case- for that. Why are >the moons -orbiting-, if they're not, actually, orbiting? Why aren't >they standing still in the sky? Be a lot easier... Actually, the situation I envisaged is to simply keep the moons orbiting in what would otherwise be non-stable orbits. Do we know that a body of Kashi's mass at its distance from Tekumel *should* orbit in exactly 15 days? Maybe it should really be 16 or 12, but the Ancients decided to change things a little. With the Creation Matrix, you'd only have to wish it so... Steve Steve@origob.compulink.co.uk -------- Al Musielewicz adds..... Subject: Moons of Tekumel: You are looking in the wrong places for an answer Ho! La! You are seeking answers on Earth about Tekumel. If you truly wish an answer you will need to find out about the orbits of the moons of Tekumel on Tekumel. I believe the answers to these questions regarding the moons can be found in either of four places. 1) Eloa's Palace in the Tlashte Heights: You will need to present several sets of human eyes to the Thunru'u at the gate and humbly request to see Achan hi'Sayanu. (Address him in Livyani and for your lives' sake do not laugh at his tatoos or his outrageous Tsolyani accent when he attempts to speak Livyani). If available, and in one of his rare generous moods, he will show you the disks and you have to sort through them yourself. You will not be allowed to access the intraplanetary controls as only members of the Tlashte clan have access to those chambers by genetic signatures. 2) The Old Imperial Palace on a small island far to the west of the known world: Access code M7184672R-and then enter Moons. You will need to cross several planes of existance and time eras to get to the palace. 3) The Repository of Knowledge at Onchash Chairon. When you reach the city, introduce yourself as a random element and ask to speak to Chaom Shorqa, A Defender of the Sixth Evolution, he can lead you into the catacombs beneath the citadel where the old ones sleep. He may have to enlist assistance from others in his group. (a Knower or an Eventuator). Beware of Nichasa, she has more daggers than an arms dealer and will use them at the slightest provocation. More knowledge of this area and specific instructions can be obtained from Tekunu hi'Qolyelmu of the Golden Sunburst Clan in Jakalla. 4) The Orbital Planetary Defense Station: You will get an answer of sorts from the androids. But you will never be able to leave. Eventually you will make some error and will die horribly. If you truly want an answer you will need to travel to find it. Dr. Barker and Mr. Alberti may know of several other locations that you could go to find an answer, perhaps the College of Wizards, the Unstraightened City, that old man who lives on the beach on the eastern side of the continent..... ---------- Robin Carpenter adds... << "For Kashi and Gayel to show distinct colours implies something very odd about their surfaces." Probably nothing too arcane; Kashi, 'bloody orange-red,' sounds awfully Mars-like in composition. For Gayel to be 'emerald-green,' though... now, that -is- a trifle odd. Green, no problem. Copper oxides, to Kashi's own iron compounds, would do that... but -emerald-? > Metallic oxides presuppose oxygen, don't they? Perhaps I'm mistaken, but aren't the moons too small to have their own atmosphere? I would have to resort to machinations of the Ancients to explain the color of the moons -- in which case, add color to the list of "why would the ancients do that" issues. I can see maintaining circular orbits just because it isn't natural -- as a demonstration of expertise or power, or as a beacon to alien races. ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //496 [Moderator's Note: Steven Woodcock notes another vampiric reference in the ] [ bestiary. ] Actually, a note to the previous remarks about Tekumelani vampirism. A note in the Bestiary caught my eye a while ago, which described the Kokh (a bloodsucking lizard) as being "sacred to one of the vampire-demonesses of Lady Dlamelish's sect." While "standard" vampires don't work on Tekumel, maybe much the same use could be made of a low-level Dlamelish demon(ess) with similar interests. The Pa'iya story from one of the Adventures books has a certain vampire-like quality (seduction, draining life force), and I doubt if the Sharetlkoi age either. Religious alignments would then become more sensible (no fear of crosses, but whatever that Qon priest is waving. . .) While not necessarily kosher, a World of Darkness/Tekumel cross might be interesting; vampires/jajgi or demons, werewolves/the Company of Less-than-Men?, mages/priests?, wraiths/?, changelings/Mihalli??? Well, it's just a thought. regards, steven woodcock ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //497 [Moderator's Note: David Chatterjee offers up some articles on Sarku. I'll ] [ send the text of the first article in this message, and ] [ second will come afterwards. As he says, this one is a ] [ tad out of season. :) ] Since the subject has come up, these two snippets I wrote a while back might be of interest. They've been published in the final Eye, but perhaps there's a further audience in the Blue Room. (I have a Mac version (in Word) with all the accents.) This shorter one's a bit unseasonal now but that's life for you, as they say in the inner sanctum. All the best, David. ***************************************************************************** ON THE WORSHIP OF THE MOST HOLY LORD SARKU ***************************************************************************** An address given by Jadhak hiChna'el of the Clan of the Ebon Blade, Eleventh Circle scholar priest of the Lord Sarku, in his clanhouse in Tleku, Thayuri Isle, on the occasion of the Festival of the Breaking Open of the Tomb on the 12th Night of Trantor. Translated by David Chatterjee, with thanks to Ginge Laurie for help with the carols. December 1995. ***************************************************************************** Yohoho! Are we all having a lovely time? [Chorus of screams from the audience.] Do you know who I am? Don't you recognize my raggedy old red Bednalljan gudru robes and the whispy trails of white fungus over my hair and face? That's right! I'm Vergessai the Dispenser of Blessings [25th Aspect of Lord Sarku], who brings the gift of death to all good little children everywhere! Today is a very special day, as we all know: tonight the wonderful Lord Sarku (e-ver-bless-ed-be-His-Name) [the children chant along] the wonderful Lord Sarku rises to stalk the face of the world looking to see who's been a faithful little demon and who's been a disobedient rascal bringing shame and dishonour to his clan and making this tired old wanderer very unhappy. Has anyone been naughty this year? [No!] Good. Because then I can be busy tonight finding all the tombs of your glorious ancestors and crawling down into them through the dark heavy earth, and blessing them all for being such honourable people and faithful worshippers of Me. And if any of you has been really noble this year - has anyone? [looking round dubiously] - I can do my favourite thing. I can ask my friend the Black Angel of the Putrescent Hand [one child shouts out, Lord Durritlamish!] to look into His amazing Vessel of the Vision of the World and find out where your tomb will be when you die; and I'll claw My way into it before it's even there and leave you a very special present so that you can come straight to join Me in My splendid Halls for all eternity - wouldn't that be lovely! [Slaves bring in some mince pies and dronu. Meanwhile a singer in the corner starts crooning "Silent night, holy night" and "God rest ye, merry Sarku men" whilst the adults hum along.] Eat up children. I'm afraid you're all too young to eat real minced flesh and drink real blood like your clan-parents will do later on in My shrine. [Yeurgh! from the audience; gentle smiles from the watching adults. The carols move on to "While shepherds watched their hma by night".] This year we're eating Uncle Ujutetl who died last month, do you remember? The nice priests saved a little part of him in case he was the last to die before tonight, and luckily for him he was, isn't that nice? That will help him go straight to heaven: he'll be the first person I see tonight when I go visiting everybody's graves. Shall I say hello from you all? [Yesss!] Shall we sing some carols or do you want your presents now? [Presents!! Four adults dressed as corpses enter bearing a sarcophagus, which opens.] Oh look, here's my magical helper, Zaidza of the Liquescent Mould, who comes to carry you to paradise if you die in your sleep! Say hello to Princess Zaidza, children - but don't get too close! [The Princess starts offering small gifts to the children, who line up nicely: tiny copper skulls and silver rings to hang as charms; various favourite dried seafood delicacies the children rarely see; little toys and gadgets from Jakalla or Chame'el.] Come on, come on, I haven't got all night you know. Longest night of the year and all that but even so. There are so many sepulchres to break open and reseal, and especially the ones of the Bereshkordashmu lineage during the middle Engsvanyali, they really knew how to make them last I can tell you. There was one time when I was a third circle stripling [the audience is slipping away from Jadhak] - err - does anyone know the story of Ritonmel the Red-Nosed Vorodla? [Yes!, and Of course!] What about the tale of the late wizard Sivuse hiVoroshketl, clan-ancestor of young Jangaiva and Raimani here, who was out of his tomb guarding his clan from danger late one cold Trantor night when the monsoon came early and washed him away and he had to try to get back home safely before the vengeful Vergessai - err, me of course - found him missing and cast him into the Halls of Ever-Blazing Flame to dry him out (may the love of the Lord of Worms defend us all from such a fate) ... [The children settle down to listen. Krezhmadz cake is brought in - krezhmadz is a Salarvyani delicacy extracted from the glands of the gorrdzha slug - and the Princess of the Liquescent Mould breaks into the traditional crispy white "domed tomb" cake with an extended claw, to finger-snapping applause from the adults. Slaves offer the crumbled masonry to the audience revealing the dark, moist flesh beneath, flecked with slivers of fruit and laced with tsuhoridu. The adults each take a piece and file out, singing "The Twelve Days of Trantor", to ready themselves for the night's rituals in the catacombs. The children sit, enraptured by Jadhak's tale of solstices past.] We five worms of Sarku are. Devouring flesh, we burrow afar - Field and fountain, Moor and mountain, Following yonder shedra. O - Worm of wonder, Worm of blight, Worm with deathly beauty bright. Downward leading, Still proceeding, Guide us to Thy perfect night. ***************************************************************************** ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //498 [Moderator's note: Here is the second of David's articles on Sarku. ] The worship of Sarku is of course a minority interest on Thayuri, and Thayuri is not often on the top of the agenda in Sarku City, so I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the views expressed here aren't quite kosher. In published articles, the Professor has emphasised the more gruesome aspects of worship, as seen by the Tsolyani populace and by the Copper Tomb faction. Of course there must be other perspectives, and this was an attempt some time ago to give them voice. Dave. ***************************************************************************** ON THE WORSHIP OF THE LORD SARKU ***************************************************************************** An address given by Jadhak hiChna'el of the Clan of the Ebon Blade, Eleventh Circle scholar priest of the Lord Sarku, upon the inauguration of First Circle acolytes in the temple at Tleku, Thayuri Isle. Translated by David Chatterjee. November 1995. ***************************************************************************** Hail to you all, newly-honoured priests, and welcome to our sacred Chamber of Glittering Night. You have made the first brave step on a long and dangerous journey, and I salute you in the name of Our Lord. May the masked demons of the Inner Paths of Ko'aar guard your steps! May you not be swayed by the Thirteen Temptations, nor by the Twenty-six Fears! Each of you is blessed by the Dark Hand of Despair, and if only you pray to Him for the strength to serve Him as He demands, you cannot falter. All the formal rituals of your election to this most exalted of priesthoods are now over. Try to relax: your new robes will be uncomfortable at first, and your face paint seems strange on your skin, does it not? Sit back, take a sip - I know you must be thirsty after the Calling of the Names of Glory. Now before you join the other priests as celebrants for the first time in the Mourning for the Eternal Arch of Death, I want to spend a few moments talking to you as a fellow traveller on your new journey. I want to point out a few of the obscure signposts you will come across, to which perhaps you had not really paid attention until now. The worship of the Dread One of the Blackest Deeps is old within our land. But it is an honour sought by a very few, and rejected - feared even - by most of our fellows. Why is this? Is the Lord of Worms to be feared? Why do we bow before Him in ecstasy if He is so terrible? Are *we* to be feared? Do we don these robes in search of power, do you - now that you wear them for the first time - feel a frisson of excitement knowing that you are someone who will engender shudders in the streets of our fair city as you go about your new business? Does it make you feel important? Ask yourselves: these questions are vital to your new life. It is not shameful to face the truth about yourself: it *is* dishonourable to hide from it; to avoid testing yourself for fear of failure; to see your flaws and yet lack the courage to challenge and defeat them. The Lord Sarku - may His Name be revered for all time - is our guide and our strength, through this life and far beyond. He is our God, and we must worship Him. But how, when we are nothing to Him? What can we do that might remotely do honour to His name? Can a Dra-ant praise his supernal glories? Can a field of yafa? Can a mountain or an ocean wave sing of His excellence? Cha, of course a mountain cannot even be aware of His devastating reality. But can you? Ferruga, do you tell me that you, a lowly acolyte, truly understand the nature of the Gods? Of course not! The first commandment of any priest is inevitably this: to know *himself*. To understand the true and eternal character of existence. To purify himself, to see clearly, so that he might then slowly begin to perceive what it is to worship his God. So what is the "true and eternal character" of an individual? His passions, his pedhetl, the Enemy that drives him from his chosen path into fruitless meanderings, that dissipates into the raw power Between the Planes upon his death? Is this really his innermost nature? Or his dreaming shadow-self, his chusetl, that flits across the Planes and vanishes like mist at death? His baletl, his spirit-soul that is merely tarrying awhile with this sentient being and then passes on to unknowable destinations beyond the Isles of the Excellent Dead, that forgets the person of whom it once was a part? Surely these are superficial aspects. Then what of his physical body, his bakte, made of the same stuff as chlen and dra, that falls away and rots? Perhaps this latter, since with great arts we can preserve and re-invigorate the bakte; and the veneration of the processes of decay and resurrection is a large part of what the outsider perceives the worship of the Dark Lord of Undead to entail. But the flesh itself is nothing! - this is the vital first lesson in understanding oneself. The conscious mind, the intellect, the alert and true-perceiving eye, this fifth and final facet of a sentient agent, his hlakme, this is the key to self-awareness and to understanding the path towards piety and godliness. How can it be otherwise? The hlakme is the one aspect of the individual that survives death and remains a distinct part of the individual. With the guidance of the Dark Lord we can return it from its dreamless sleep in the tomb - still linked to the bakte, not dissolved nor forgetful - to alertness and awareness and eternal freedom from the pettiness of living shackled to the dreaming, angry, wandering selves. With our mind finally clear from the veils we create around ourselves, we are finally able to begin truly to understand the magnificence that is the Lord Sarku, and to give praise to Him until the inevitable Triumph of Chaos. What then is the aim of the devout worshipper? To train his intellect, to see clearly and calmly the falsehood of the shadows that flitter across his mind - love, hate, ambition - so that he might more nearly approach an understanding of his God, both before and after his death. So should we fear death? No! It brings us closer to our destination. We are alive for a handful of years cast into the night like grains of dna. Is not then our death far more important than our life? And who can guide us in death? You think you know the answer I want, but you do not understand its import. Listen to the singers in your clanhouses! Listen to the recitations in your temple! How many times have you heard the Lament to the Wheel of Black? - and yet do you grasp what it tells you? The Lord Belkhanu cannot help you: he is merely the courier for the spirit-soul that once was a part of you but now has nothing further to give you. The Grey Lord could do nothing but watch as the early Gods fought; and in His weakness He could become the Knower merely of Life. Then the mighty Lord Sarku was become incarnate - and took His place opposite and beyond Thumis as the Knower of Death! Sarku is the Guide into Darkness, the One who sees the skein of destiny of every entity on all the Planes, who holds in His Hand the futures of all of us! The Lament to the Wheel of Black even tells us that Lord Sarku alone was capable of defeating the treachery of the Doomed Prince on Dormoron Plain - how could it be otherwise, when only Our Lord holds all the pathways of life and death? - who else could see Ksarul's Doom? - who else could confine a God? If all this is clear, then why should we be feared? The outsider sees our emblems of decay, the icons of Siyenagga the Wanderer of Tombs; Zaidza the Princess of the Liquescent Mould; Ku'un the Corpse-Lord. He pays no heed to others of Our Master's Aspects: Chkorangtla the Shining Pool of Envisionment; Tsapka'a the Devastating Wind that strips away the cowardly lies and self-deceptions we array around ourselves; Gonnqesha the Torch of Night who leads us into the Paradises of the Tomb. Those who gape and shudder and turn away are like the rabble crowds of a hirilakte arena screaming for blood and violence. They enjoy being aroused by sickening passions being inflicted between strangers. But what about the true warrior who finds himself fighting for his life? Should he be full of lust and rage? No! - rather, he must learn through years of dedication to train not just his body but his mind, to control his emotions, to view his opponent and the imminence of death calmly so that he might fight sharply and precisely and honourably without fear of failure or of shaming himself, his ancestors, and his teachers. We - you - are in an identical position. Ignore those who avoid you, pity those who nerve themselves to approach you out of excited fear, be patient with those who seek to understand. In the end, all of these people will meet our Dread Lord: as will you. Honour Him and your Church and your clan, and you can look forward to that meeting with joy. A glorious future awaits you. But do not think it will be easy. The facets of worship of Lord Sarku that so fascinate outsiders are real, and they serve a purpose. Death, decay, the corruption of the flesh, all this must be faced. You can have no comprehension of what awaits you, and if I were to tell you what is involved in the rituals of the Ravening Angel of Despair or the High Surrender to Excrescence you would run screaming from this room. How can we understand what comes beyond the Black Curtain without staring into it until it falls back under the blazing force of our will? But - as with the warrior - the aim is not to run shrieking into the arms of horror, but to train our mind to strong, calm contemplation, to be able to focus without being distracted by our own passions or those of others. To look ahead to whatever may befall us without fear, disgust, excitement, or fury. How can we perceive the true glory of Eternal Chaos that our Lord promises when we ourselves are awash with dreams and shadows and falsehoods? How can we play our small part in serving His plans? It would be unnatural if you were not apprehensive and fearful along the way: when a young warrior faces his first naked blade in training, and later his first hostile enemy, will he not blanch? If such things excited him the way they excite his audience in the arena, would we not think him sick of mind and unfit to fight? To see clearly and not to flinch! What could be more honourable? But this takes so many years of courage and faith: I hope and pray that all of you will hold to the path and neither turn nor fall. Indeed, I myself am only a little further along. We must help and support one another through the arduous times ahead. Enough; your initiations have been long, and I cannot explain all the Mysteries of the Dark to tired young priests in a single kiren! Let us move down to the Shattered Steps of the Opening Tomb for your first ceremony as full clergy. None of you have yet seen this part of the temple: I shall show the way. ***************************************************************************** ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //499 [Moderator's Note: Jeff Bourget asks a question about the "Heresy of ] [ Chu'inur." ] >I have a question about the "Heresy of Chu'inur." In MoG, Harsan quotes >the Scrolls of Pavar as saying that the Gods and Goddesses are separate >and distinct beings. Yet, in the sourcebook, Shiringgai is depicted as an >amalgam of Avanthe and Dlamelish. In the Gamescience Sourcebook other >examples are pointed out on pages 53 and 54. (Not to mention the >heresiarchs of Livyanu, since no outsider can even learn of their true >doctrines) All true, Sources and opinions differ widely. This is due to the multiplicity of materials, data, theories, and arguments over the many centuries. >Perhaps the reason for the failure of Chu'inur is that, like the >Tinaliya diety, a monotheistic vision of God doesn't grant goodies and >favors. A monotheistic vision of God can indeed grant goodies and favours. Christians, for example, believe that Christ fed the multitude with loaves and fishes, brought the dead back to life, etc. -- which are certainly "favours" and "goodies." God parted the sea for Moses. God took the Holy Prophet Muhammad up to the highest heaven and vouchsafed him knowledge and grace. Etc. Chu'inur failed because his "heresy" brought in other, unnamed deities as prime actors in the saga of Dormoron Plain and the "alliance" of the Gods to defeat Lord Ksarul. This did not sit well with the orthodoxy. Chu'inur seems to have agreed that the deities of Pavar were essentially *separate* entities, but he seems to have considered them only a part of an ever-unfolding pantheon. He is thus in agreement upto this point with the Salarvyani view of Avanthe/Dlamelish (Shiringgayi), but he wanted to take it farther. Not much else is known about this scholar. Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //500 [Moderator's Note: Jim Chapin asks about Sarku and divorce. ] >"Divorce has religious connotations only in one or two of the Tsolyani >temples (e.g. Sarku)." >Curiosity overcomes me. What is the religious significance of divorce >to Sarku? No one knows exactly. Something about two intelligences joined as one who have now come apart, with a loss of comprehension and retention of the mighty visions of Chaos. Being a "multiple observer" is better than being a "limited, single observer." So they say... Can't get much more out of my Sarku informants. Sorry Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //501 [Moderator's Note: Steve Lopez comments on the Professor's comment about ] [ Dejah Thoris. ] >... And did Deja Thoris run really around half-nekkid in the frigid >atmosphere of Mars? Now *there's* a scientific mystery! No, Professor. She ran around *totally* naked, according to Edgar Rice Burroughs. Maybe this is why Barsoom and Tekumel are my two favorite alternate worlds? Hmmmmmmmmm, perhaps Freud would have something to say about this... [Moderator's Note: Well, naked depends on how you define it. She wore ] [ lots of jewel encrusted doo-dads and a weapon harness, ] [ if we are to believe old Ed. But they did next to ] [ nothing to cover the body. Of course, you can't believe] [ any of the artwork. In the early edition books the ] [ ladies wore full skirts! Kind of amusing looking at the] [ illustrations and reading the conflicting text! ] [ And again, lest I be branded chauvanistic, the men ran ] [ about the surface of Barsoom equally nekkid. They too, ] [ were illustrated more than half clothed in the early ] [ editions. Later edition's art removed the clothing on ] [ just about everyone and everything. ] All my best -- Steve Lopez [Churak hiMrukkal, Grey Cloak Clan of Fenul] ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //502 [Moderator's Note: The Professor remarks on Steven Woodcock's note about ] [ vampire-like creatures. ] >Actually, a note to the previous remarks about Tekumelani vampirism. A >note in the Bestiary caught my eye a while ago, which described the Kokh >(a bloodsucking lizard) as being "sacred to one of the vampire-demonesses >of Lady Dlamelish's sect." While "standard" vampires don't work on >Tekumel, maybe much the same use could be made of a low-level Dlamelish >demon(ess) with similar interests. The Pa'iya story from one of the >Adventures books has a certain vampire-like quality (seduction, draining >life force), and I doubt if the Sharetlkoi age either. Religious >alignments would then become more sensible (no fear of crosses, but >whatever that Qon priest is waving. . .) Steven has a point. There are other *vampire-like* creatures on Tekumel. They aren't the usual Count Dracula creatures famous in myth and movies, but there are indeed beasties who suck blood and lifeforce. >While not necessarily kosher, a World of Darkness/Tekumel cross might be >interesting; vampires/jajgi or demons, werewolves/the Company of >Less-than-Men?, mages/priests?, wraiths/?, changelings/Mihalli??? Well, >it's just a thought. Put it all together, if you like. Some of it will ring true; other details may differ just enough on close inspection to make a "match" impossible or at least unlikely. Looking at Tekumel through the eyes of European Chiristianity and mythology is not very productive because of the vast cultural and linguistic differences. It has always been difficult for Tekumel (per se) to become a mythos of itself and for itself; the world is too unfamiliar; the correspondences do not always work. D-n-D, on the other hand, is easily intelligible to American/European readers. The knights and squires, dragons and elves, trolls and other monsters are all direct carry-overs that any child can understand. A few more entities can be found in the writings of Tolkien and others. A very few are unique but are quickly internalised because they resemble and act like familiar beings. Tekumel has no such obvious "build-ins," although less visible build-ins are indeed present. The *real* World of Darkness on Tekumel centres around the Pariah Deities and those who follow them. You want something *truly* evil...? I try not to go too deeply into these features. Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //503 [Moderator's Note: Joe Saul asks about Avanthe and her curse on those with ] [ blue eyes. ] >"Why would Avanthe be cursing anyone -- what [is] the meaning... behind the >story. Are there specific things a blue-eyed person must not do, e.g. >participate in the planting of crops or other Avanthe-related activities?" Avanthe does not like the brazen use of her colour (medium blue) for the eyes of persons who are not worthy. To her, *no one* is worthy of blue eyes. A blue-eyed person is not likely to live long enough to reach maturity, much less help in planting crops. Her devotees take her prohibition very seriously. In "Man of Gold," Tlayesha was just lucky to have avoided being put to death as a deviant or "retard" while still a child. Since I started to use Eudora, I can never find my e-mail addresses or use the stupid addressbook any more. Please send a copy to Joe. Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //504 [Moderator's Note: The moon topic still has some trickle ins... Here is a ] [ compendium of the final messags. ] Stephen Posey writes.. >>sounds awfully Mars-like in composition. For Gayel to be 'emerald-green,'... >> >>Maybe it's one gigantic life-form. A species of algae, massing >>millions of metric tons. Mmmm, shades of 2010 and what was happening on Europa or Stanisalw Lem's Solairs. >You've found out. You will need to be dealt with. Do not fear, however: >if the mind-bars do not 'take,' your execution with be both dignified and >relatively painless. With regard to the colors though: first, there's no reason to assume that the visible disk of either moon is actually the surface, I seem to recall both being described as possibly having at least tenuous atmospheres; second, our current planetary surveys have shown us some pretty unusual colorations for some of the moons in OUR solar system, why not Tekumel's? Here's a theory: maybe they were stockpiles of raw materials for the Ancients? Red==>iron oxides, green==>copper oxides? >I couldn't let this one go unanswered due to the use of the >phrase "Horse Puckey".... Yes, surely something along the lines of "Chlen Excreta" would have been more apropos? ;-) >meaningless. If you really want a bizzare but stable orbit >then consider Earth's second moon (yes, we have at least >two) which is a small asteroid discovered in 1986 designated >3753. This moves in a strange orbit reminiscent of an >bumble-bee on acid, with no simply defined eccentricity, yet >is definitely gravitationally bound to the Earth. I see no >reason why Gayel and Kashi could not have quite eccentric >orbits. Hadn't heard about this "second moon" before, how about some references? (If that's not too far off topic). [Moderator's Note: Check the first pages of the sourcebook. It's all right ] [ there. ] >Not so! The gravitational effect of the moons on each other >would be quite substantial. This phenomenon is seen all over >the solar system even among the particles that make up >Saturn's ring. (The effect causes the various gaps in the >rings, which are at simple fractions of the orbital periods >of the inner moons). If the orbital planes of Kashi and >Gayel are at all near the same plane then they will almost >certainly be linked in some resonance (...assuming that they >are natural bodies, that is). As far as things Tekumelani are concerned, that is a very BIG assumption to make! >Ho! La! You are seeking answers on Earth about Tekumel. If you truly wish >an answer you will need to find out about the orbits of the moons of Tekumel >on Tekumel. I believe the answers to these questions regarding the moons can >be found in either of four places. [deletia: 1,2,3,4] Cool places! Speaking from experience? [Gad, talk about somebody knowing too much! ;-)] >Metallic oxides presuppose oxygen, don't they? Perhaps I'm mistaken, but >aren't the moons too small to have their own atmosphere? I would have to >resort to machinations of the Ancients to explain the color of the moons -- >in which case, add color to the list of "why would the ancients do that" >issues. I can see maintaining circular orbits just because it isn't natural >-- as a demonstration of expertise or power, or as a beacon to alien races. "why would the ancients do that"? Tekumel was a "resort" planet, no? They had the technology and apparently the desire to do such elaborate things for purely estheic reasons: "it looks pretty that way" was more than enough reason. Stephen Posey ------- Gordon Neff adds... Steve: All -right-, ya wanna be pedantic, a circumpolar orbit would produce odd effects. Now show me one, occurring naturally anywhere in the System. I'll go ahead and concede most of this; how many angels, after all, -can- dance on the head of a pin? The respective discussions are becoming disturbingly similar. Just in passing, though, it's impossible for I, who am 'confused,' to resist asking: ...consider Earth's second moon (yes, we have at least two) which is a small asteroid discovered in 1986 designated 3753. This moves in a strange orbit reminiscent of an bumble-bee on acid, with no simply defined eccentricity, yet is definitely gravitationally bound to the Earth. I see no reason why Gayel and Kashi could not have quite eccentric orbits. And just how long, Master, d' ye suppose '3753' has BEEN THERE? Compared to the Moon-- or the moons of Tekumel, for that matter... Even I know that recently-captured objects do indeed zing around in wild orbits... but they don't stay that way; either they impact their primary or work, slowly, towards circularity. And yes, I know about the Cassini Divide, thank you. I think Mr Musielewicz really has the final word on this, though; his suggestions of research sites appear exhaustive, and well worth pursuing. ('Orbital Planetary Defense Station'? I wouldn't have thought any such would still be on orbit; it would have 'died the death of SkyLab' many millennia ago.) G. ----- The Perfessor wraps this one... Regarding all this moon-discussion, I can only say that "I pass." I tell you what *I* see on Tekumel. I leave it to more learned physical scientists than I to explain it. Wish I could do more, but I am no more responsible for such details than the creators of Star Trek are obliged to use 20th Century science to explain how the transporter beams work. Enjoy Tekumel for what it is, See if you can come up with something better. I cannot say more. Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //505 [Moderator's Note: William Nock asks some excellent questions about Combat ] [ magic and mages. ] >In formal warfare individual magicians are powerless due to the draining >effect of combat magicians who work in teams of five. This is my basic >understanding and if it's wrong it may undermine a lot of my questions. >(I'm a player not a GM.) You're more or less correct. Large battles usually have contingents of sorcerers attached to both armies. Individual magic might be used before or after a battle (e.g. to heal important wounded), but during a battle the use of individual spells is practically impossible. >What I'd like to know is: > >a) Are combat magicians different to ordinary magicians, do they just have >different training or different powers? Combat magicians are trained to work together and combine their powers to create very powerful spells. They are thus different from individual sorcerers. The latter cannot just jump in and "help" a team of battle magicians. Battle sorcerers may know a few individual spells, but they are rarely trained in all the niceties of individual spell casting. The temples quickly separate children who seem likely to become battle magicians from regular priestly types, and their training is quite different. A lot of teamwork and joint practice for the battle magicians, versus individual training, courses on many subjects, and religious rituals, etc. for the individual learners. >b) Are combat magicians always mutually negatory? Or do they ever decide >the outcome of battles? No, but winning a battle with magic alone is very rare. The foot-sloggers are still needed to go in and mop up. Also, battle magicians go into trance-like states where they might not be able to detect and react to a small contingent of enemy troops sent to find and destroy them. >c) What happens when an army with combat magicians meets one without? Is >the one without slaughtered? If not is this because the other side hangs >back? If it does hang back what is the point in having combat magicians? This has happened due to miscalculation a couple of times in history. Usually the one without a contingent of sorcerers loses and flees or hides behind fortified earthworks. Sometimes a determined bluff may convince a foe to hang back -- e.g. if you have no combat magicians and yet pretend that you do. A good general will reconnoitre carefully before committing major units of his army, and a gang of soldiers attired in priestly robes sitting far back up on a hillside can look like a very threatening magical contingent. This worked once at the Siege of Mmillaka back in the 1300's. >d) How many combat magicians are likely to accompany any given army? For >example how many does Prince Eselne have under his command? Dozens, >hundreds, a few? A couple of hundred is usually all that are needed for any individual battle. Eselne has about 2-3 thousand available, as does Rereshqala. Taksuru and Mirusiya have less, and Dhich'une's resources are not known. Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //506 [Moderator's Note: Thomas Worthington requested that he be able to put to- ] [ gether the Professor's answers to questions in a tutorial] [ type format. The URL mentioned in the following message ] [ is the ongoing result of that project. The Professor ] [ also questions for Thomas. ] >Just to say that a new version of the Report on Tekumel is on the >web site (http://www.ncl.ac.uk/~n6388131/tek.html as normal). It >includes a short introduction which explains in Tekumel terms what >material has been included and excluded and covers up to message 275. >It is getting to be quite a substantial document, particularly since >there is no table of contents but I'll add that once I'm up to date. Wonderful! Applause! >I would like to ask Phil if magically barren areas still allow a >sorcerer to cast spell using what is already contained in his/her >Pedhetl much as an eye can be used once. Obviously, the sorcerer >would have to have been away to some place which was not barren in >order to have any power in his/her Pedhetl. Perhaps I'm >misunderstanding what the Pedhetl does exactly; the various rule >books do not match up very well with the prose sources on sorcery >(in my opinion, anyway). Once Other Planar power is drawn through into Tekumel's Plane, it usually stays active for some time. The length of time depends upon the strength of the sorcerer, the deadening strength of the "Barren Area," and other factors that are not too well understood. Thus, a sorcerer who "cocked" a spell in Livyanu cannot expect it to work months later when he arrives at the Tsolei Isles. The power just dribbles away, like an electric torch that is left on for a long period. On the other hand, if one happens to cock a spell just outside of a Barren Zone, then step inside and cast it, this is usually likely to work. An Eye usually has one of its charges "cocked" and hence can fire just once in a Barren Zone. Eyes are efficiently preprogrammed to work within their constructed parameters, of course. They don't "scatter," as do the spells of almost every living sorcerer, due to loss of concentration, failure to visualise and use the patterns correctly, etc. Even sorcerers with strong pedhetls occasionally fail. Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //507 [Moderator's Note: Gordon Neff comments on the Vampirism subject. ] [******Please Note: Tomorrow, Saturday July 26, I will be adding a new drive] [ to Nexus. I will bring it down at 9:30 AM and hope to ] [ be back up by noon. Thanks. ] >"While not necessarily kosher, a World of Darkness/Tekumel cross might be >interesting; vampires/jajgi or demons, werewolves/the Company of >Less-than-Men?..." Yah, well, I never liked 'crossovers' (a term used by the comic book industry, if I recall; 'Capt Zip Meets Weenie-Man,' and who cares?) but it just seems as though there OUGHT to be 'classic Undead' on Tekumel, just because so much ELSE of magic, and magic-oriented elements, is present as well. [Moderator's Note: Why? I totally disagree with your statement above ] [ (except the one about comic book crossovers!). :) The ] [ use of other-planar power is decidedly like magic, but ] [ the principles involved could be vastly different. Why ] [ does it have to be that way? Even if it were the same, ] [ why would that imply it was utilized in the same way? ] [ I'll use one of Phil's favorite lines... "If your ] [ Tekumel has 'classic undead', fine. Just don't expect ] [ them to appear in anyone elses, or in 'Real' Tekumel." ] I mentioned earlier, for example, the historical correlation between the presence of iron, and the absence of magic--and how marvelously Tekumel exists in the exact opposite condition. Now, if THAT bit of classic thaumaturgy carries forward, -surely- there's room, somewhere, for 'undead creatures who suck blood to survive, fizzle and smoke in the sunlight, turn into bats and fly around the room, get all upset when faced with garlic, and go bonkers when confronted by a cross...' as Message 479 described them. [Moderator's Note: Again, why? ] Now you -could- take the opportunity to clean off some of that, the bats and such; that one will not bear even a moment's thought. (That'd be one Big, Heavy Bat, no?) >"Religious alignments would then become more sensible (no fear of crosses, but >whatever that Qon priest is waving. . .)" Absolutely. If you recall the 1975 Empire of the Petal Throne rules, the rules graft from... ah, that other TSR game... produced labels of 'Good' and 'Evil,' pasted on with no regard for fact or propriety. Okay-- but it's a pretty good bet that any creature 'oriented' to the Tlokiriqaluyal, or their Cohorts, is gonna at least -flinch-, when confronted by priests or artifacts of the Tlomitlanyal-- or -their- Cohorts. [Moderator's Note: At the risk of sounding like a busted record... ] [ Why? What is the rationale for a creature to shrink from] [ a priest/mage from another temple? In some cases, the ] [ temples work with their counterpart more effectively than] [ with others of their own group. In some ways, the ] [ Temple of Karakan works better with Vimuhla, than say, ] [ Thumis or Belkhanu. I just don't buy your hypothesis. ] [ If vampires don't exist on Tekumel, they don't exist. I ] [ don't understand why it is so important that they do? ] [ Am I missing the point? ] 'Hehellukoi Vlad hiDraku' will never have -seen- the Christian instrument-of-torture symbol, as such, but I'd bet a Priest of Thumis could bop him with a rolled-up scroll-- er, that is, SMITE him with the Puissant Might of the God of Wisdom... and it would -hurt-! [Moderator's Note: If Hehellukoi Vlad hiDraku existed on Tekumel. I like ] [ the fact that Tekumelani undead are different. Go ahead ] [ and let Vlad run around on your version of Tekumel. I ] [ don't have any problem with that. Just don't expect any ] [ other version to conform to that. ] G J N ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //508 [Moderator's Note: From the annals of Mitlanyal editing comes the following. ] [ Bob provides his answer, but asks the Professor to elab- ] [ orate. ] Whilst editing Mitlanyal, Joe Saul was moved to ask... "[please discuss] the relationship between the war temples and the professional military (i.e. Legions)? The role of these temples in society, especially as regard the Legions, is not at all clear to me. For example, my understanding is that temple guard units rarely fight. If so, how can the priests of Karakan claim to actually be warriors, except in some symbolic sense? Wouldn't anyone truly interested in war as a lan activity sign up for the best legion he could join? And wouldn't he look down upon anyone who serves in a mere temple guard unit? "Or can officers of military legions also become lay-priests of Karakan/Chegarra, join the honorary societies, get the martial training, and so on? "Maybe it's just me, but I am confused..." ---- Here is my response, but I'd like to hear what the professor has to say. It is important to understand that in Tsolyani terms I am a "scholar priest," likely of Thumis, probably only of the second circle. Hence military matters hold almost no interest for me whatsoever, unlike many gamers. Thus my analysis of temple-military relationships and my understanding regarding Joe's question is limited. As far as I know, the military in Tsolyanu is a uniquely hybrid beast: the military legions are wielded by the Imperium, but are supported and funded by various combinations of the Temples, clans, and the local and imperial treasuries. This balance prevents the military as a whole from gaining too much independent power, and also prevents any of the Imperium, Temples and clans from turning the military against any of the other groups. But the military stands alone. (Now this is where I get hazy.) Anyone can join any military legion, with some exceptions. In some cases the restrictions that exist are unwritten, such as a Sarku-worshipper joining Red Devastation. In other cases the restrictions are explicit: no men will join Lady Dilinala's legion of lesbian warriors. However, one is generally free to join almost any legion. If a young man or woman wishes to join a legion supported by Lord Karakan, he or she may do so. Even (hazy again) a youth whose family raised him as a Sarku worshipper could join, although he would be well advised not to exhibit any but the most perfunctory interest in his family faith. One could be a worshipper of Lord Karakan, then, but not be a priest of the temple, and hence not a temple guard. You could join a Karakan legion, see all sorts of wondrous battle action in the fields between Bey Su and Avanthar, pray for victory in the temple, and be slain gloriously by an illiterate lad from the Kurt Hills wielding a dull chlen-hide sword who gets in a lucky shot. Priests of the various temples may become military officers through personal effort (by studying as a priest before joining a military legion) or by means of political and financial incentives. High Administrative Priests may be appointed as Legion officers because of their adminstrative skills and political acumen. High Ritual priests are often appointed as the "Kerdu" of a legion, when in fact the legion is really run by their experienced military adjutant, and they serve merely as the Temple liason to the legion. And in the Temple of Vimuhla, all the soldiery are at least first-circle priests of the Temple, so that whole legions are made up of "temple priests" who are also warriors. What you probably WON'T find are mid-level soldiers who are also mid-level priests. To be a mid-level priest, one must live and work in the temple. To be a mid-level soldier, one must bunk in the barracks. Only at the top where money, power and influence stir the mix will you find the "High Ritual Priest of Karakan and Kerdu of the Legion of Blazing Glory," or such. The temple guard of the various temples are (always? usually? sometimes?) a branch of the ritual priesthood, of fairly junior station. The grizzled sergeant of the temple guard is probably someone of only moderate clan, only moderate ambition, and only moderate intelligence and political skills, hence their rather unphenomenal station in life. But the Temple Guard are either ritual priests, or else clanspeople hired by the Temple for the duty. These are not the same as military legion troops, and experience in the temple guard is of only limited interest to legion recruiters -- sort of like the way a teenage job at McDonald's demonstrates one's ability to show up for work and not get fired, and that's all. There are of course certain positions in the temple guard reserved for those of particular skill, talent, intelligence and devotion. These persons are a cut above the second-circle "Opener of the Way of Bones" (Sarku Temple door- guard), and would not mix with such. These officers of the temple guard are highly trained and serve to guard the Inner Sanctums, and the offices and persons of the Inner Temple. When one of the Temple Guards blasts an invader with a blazing spell, then slices through four or five bravos to turn back an incursion of player characters, that's the kind of officer that they ran into. I invite Professor Barker to shoot holes in this analysis, as it represents only my limited experience with military matters in Tsolyanu. Bob Alberti ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //509 [Moderator's Note: Ian Marsh has put up a bit of Tekumel based fiction on ] [ his web page. It can be found at ] [ http://www.cygnet.co.uk/~orun/ ] I hope this may be of interest: Patrick Brady's The Strange Case of the Murdered Virgins is now available on my web site. It's a Tekumel short story starring various members of the Clan of the Hall of Stone in Chene Ho, and it originally appeared in Alarums & Excursions. I've finally managed to rework Patrick's file into HTML so it's digestible on a browser. I've tried posting a news item on usenet, but it appears to have got no further than my local server. Best wishes, Ian ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //510 [Moderator's Note: Chuck Monson relates a story. I have some questions on ] [ their way to the Professor, and then I have to make a ] [ digest, since my digest creator is off to Moscow, and I ] [ have numerous new members to provide back messages. I ] [ hope that I can get some more stuff out tonight. ] A re-counting of an old battle where I first used Tekumel miniatures some twenty years ago: During the wars along the southern frontier, a noble contingent of Baron Ald's army met with some truculent Tsolyani troops who presumed to interfere with the Yan Koryani force rejoining its main body. After several duels were fought, our noble leaders assured us we had won the advantage and ordered a general attack. My unit of archers moved in unison with our fellows on the right flank. We quickly came to a position overlooking the array of our heavier forces to the center of the battle. As a Tsolyani center unit broke in rout before our main troops, our commander made a surprising display of courage and mystical insight and ordered that the unit should advance rapidly across the flank of the enemy. In a scurry over broken ground, we became less ordered than I would have liked...loosing sight of half the unit was troubling...but we survived to reorganize on the...well, might I call it "very extended" right wing of our forces. In fact, we emerged nearly half way to the enemy rear! Realizing that the battle had started to reverse itself and threatened to leave us desperately cut off from allies, our certain-to-be-remembered leader ordered us to fire volley upon volley of arrows into the enemy command area which was designated by a raised platform. Now even a junior rank like myself knows that if you sting the enemy he may very well swat you. This is what ensued. We saw the approach of the Tsolyani flankers and medium troops led by a small contingent of Pei Choi. In the time left to us we sent our last volley toward the command platform. And very like all previous flights, these fell against the powerful battle magics of the Tsolyani. Arrows rained down only to scatter in mid-flight...save a few which struck generally among the colorful targets presented to us. Then we fled, barely making the safety of our own lines as the Tsolyani made haste to cover their own counter-attack. Our commander who-shall-be-remembered enobled himself in the broken grounds as we scrambled to warn of the enemy approach. Our next officer was well informed of this matter and is presently considered a very prudent leader. There are rumors which reached us after the battle which reassured us that we had indeed conducted some action enobling our banner. The last flight of arrows, or what few actually made it through the magic barriers, struck home among the high officers of the Tsolyani. In fact, it is rumored that several arrows struck the person of the general himself, piercing his armor, and delivering a killing wound. It is a nice story, we tell it a lot in the camps. (the Professor was the adjudicator at this affair, and sure we pressed the options as hard as possible.....for me, it was the beginning of several battles of Quadardalikoi in which I fondly played the Yan Koryani commander....and WON!...maybe next time I will remember enough of the great fortress battle with three national armies convening...were any of you there?) Chuck ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.