These messages are the accumulation of the messages that were sent out on the Blue Room email list between May 1995 and June 2000. A large portion of the information is directly from Professor M.A.R Barker. When the list members joined during the time the list was active, they agreed to refrain from sharing this data with non list members. When the list ended, it was urged that the data be made available to non-list Tekumel fans, and it seemed like a good idea all around. I only ask that if you download these digests, or have received them in some other way, please respect the agreements the list members made, and refrain from passing them around and instead point people to the Tekumel web site, www.tekumel.com so that they can download them for themselves, and see all the other material available on the Tekumel.com web site. Many Thanks. Chris Davis Moderator: Blue Room mailing list Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs CC BY-NC-ND BLUE ROOM ARCHIVE -- VOLUME 11 301: More Campaign Time Setting 302: More on GenCon 303: More on Nobility 304: Pronouns for 'you' 305: Tlakotani use of hi 306: Aspects and Archery 307: More Tlakotani use of hi 308: Dhich'une's Child 309: Professor Confirms Dhich'une's Child 310: Campaign Theme Idea 311: Aspects and Localized Worship 312: More Campaign Theme 313: The Wonderful World of Tekumel :) 314: Important Administrative Info 315: Clan Assimilation and Ito Information 316: Monster Definition 317: More Monster Definition **** ONE-YEAR LIST ANNIVERSARY **** 318: More on Campaigns 319: What Happens? 320: Nonhuman Languages 321: Travel Times and Livyani Eating Customs 322: Registrations in the United Kingdom 323: More Army Questions 324: Pechani 325: Mages and Metal 326: Armour Production 327: Nyelmu and His Garden 328: Monasteries 329: Cartouches, Legions, and Errors 330: Ssu Varieties ************************************* //301 [Moderator's Note: David also speaks to the Campaign Time setting. Tom ] [ Robertson also adds his comments. ] The option of starting at some completely different time is a nice one, but the current civil war is at least as interesting as any other period within Tsolyanu, so maybe the effort of doing it all yourself would be better repaid by moving a lot further back: eg to Engsvanyali times (or the Triangle States? - back when you're free to mess around even with the Gods before Pavar writes the official version?). Sticking with current events, I would say it depends on how quickly you expect to move through game-time. I wanted my players to see the civil war and we started in 2363: Hirkane's last year. This gave me lots of recent history from the previous ten years to provide detailed background; and the major themes for the next four years of war (though I count that as the unfixed future and if it becomes inappropriate to our campaign I wouldn't stick to Phil's official account). It also gives the players something stable in which to develop their loyalties and view of the world, before it gets thoroughly mangled. (PS They're Sarku officers.) The problem with this grand theory is that my players like to do things right, and we play very slowly: typically three evenings per game-day. So even with just the monsoon between us and the succession, it's going to take a while ... If you intend to move much faster (come to that, -I- intended to move much faster) you can afford to start earlier and still reach the juicy bits. On the other hand, I know people who grew up in the good old days who won't have anything to do with all these brattish Princes getting above themselves, and are quite happy to stick in the Hirkane era, thank you very much. At the end of the day, Tekumel is so good I don't think it matters where you are, just get out and play. Have fun, Dave Chatterjee. ----- What is stopping you using all these time periods? It is amazing what "gates" can do. Imagine the problems your characters would have if they found themselves stepping through a oneway gate [of course :) ] and finding themselves back 500 years.... What would their clans back then make of them?? Look at all the information that could be stripped from them if they are caught?? Well that's my 2 cents worth Regards Tom ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //302 [Moderator's Note: Larry Hull of PHD Games responds to the possible get ] [ together at GenCon. They will be there running games. ] PHD Games will be at GenCon in booth number 136. Wes should be at the booth during dealer's hours and he will be running miniatures events in slots 4, 8, and 12. These events are detailed in the preregistration info for GenCon under miniature events with 'Warfare on Tekumel' as the game system. (This is our 'working title' for the modified Qadardalikoi rules.) All fans of Tekumel are welcome at the booth at any time and it can be used as a meeting place (as long as we are not cut off from the normal traffic of gamers!) Wes is coming by this weekend to make miniatures and we will discuss possible 'doings' at GenCon and send a further message later. Larry ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //303 [Moderator's Note: Lisa further asks about Nobilily. ] A further short response for Lisa: [Short!?!] :) >A clarification on what I meant by nobility... >In the Tsolyani language book I saw forms of "you" that are for >"minor nobles" and for "high nobles" (along with all the other >25 plus special pronouns for "you"!), so I figured that they must >draw the nobility line at some point. From your explanation, >I see that this can vary from geographical area to area, but for >the purpose of knowing when to address someone as "My lord/lady" >or "Lord/Lady so-and-so" in the course of playing the *game* I >was wondering if there a general rule to follow, like: below >this status level you will not find (many) nobility. It is as hard on Tekumel to judge forms of address as it is here. I have offended feminists by introducing them at parties as "Mrs. So-and-so," and I have offended traditional women by introducing them as just "First Name" or "First Name and Maiden Name." It is easier to "see" status levels on Tekumel: they are much more visible. Here, we males all dress either in suits and ties, or in "undress" costumes (uniforms?) that vary for our perceived social groups: thus, we have "grunge," "bikers," "California-casual," Ivy-league," etc. -- all terms used on national television and not devised by me. On Tekumel, the wearing of clan symbols on one's garments, clan medallions and jewellery, uniforms for certain professions (e.g. soldiers, priests), etc. etc. all give clues. Beyond these, there is a much wider difference between "rich" and "poor": a ragged, worn, cheap kilt and tunic tell you one thing, while a fancy, pleated, starched, gem-encrusted, decorated costume tells you the opposite. Here, even this is difficult: I recall once when I was vacationing on an island in the San Juans in Puget Sound. I met an elderly man dressed in torn dungarees and a grimy T-shirt. I chatted with him and thought him to be an uneducated "poor man." When we finished, he pointed across the cove at a hundred-foot-long sleek yacht and invited me aboard for lunch! He was just a "simple old millionaire..." The Tsolyani are much more punctilious. "High" people do not "dress down" or allow others to denigrate their status. This is because social status is so important in "placing" people. Not every member of the Tlakotani clan is a "lord" or "lady," and not every member of Wicker Image is a low-life. But on the average, you're safer addressing the former with a title that is "too high" or the latter with a title that is "too low" than the other way round. "High folk" use the fancy pronouns; "low folk" don't merit them. If you make a mistake, most peope will not take umbrage but will hint or gently say something to underline their true status. It is hard for Tsolyani (and the rest of the Five Empires, for that matter) to imagine "dressing down," even for fun. Very few high nobles want to go into "acting" (drama, etc.) as a profession, because it means changing status. There are no "costume parties," where high folk would appear as bums, clowns, etc. I have often had players who wanted to become performers -- acrobats, travelling jugglers, dancers, and the like -- and I have had to point out that no noble can keep his/her status while behaving in this way. The same is true of players who want to get rich quickly by becoming slavers. That profession is negatively perceived. A slaver's status is just zero -- although a high noble who collects "fancies" may be considered okay in some circles (the Temple of Dlamelish). Your question about which clans are "noble" is a good one, but not one that gives any immediate, easy answers. When you meet someone, look him/her/it over, judge from the costume whatever you can, listen to the person's speech (both accent and vocabulary), and use the most neutral pronoun you can until he/she/it is introduced. The lineage name and the clan-name will almost certainly be the first things out of the person's mouth, and you can wing it fromt here. If he/she/it has one of the ancient titles (Mringgukoi, Pachukoi, etc.), you will be informed by the person -- or by someone in the group -- and you should then use the title until told by the person to be "more familiar." He/she/it may then actally tell you what 2nd person pronoun to use when addressing him/her/it -- rather like formal German "Du" and "Sie." (I am told by traditional German friends that this almost requires a little formal "ceremony" when the senior person tells the junior that it is all right to employ "Du.") I know that there is a tendency (from D-n-D or SCA or somewhere) for all players to address each other and other persons they meet as "My Lord" or "My Lady." This is part of building an "atmosphere" of foreign-ness for the game, but it is not really a Tsolyani custom. I get a reverse effect (a peasant or low-class "accent") for my players by using a fakey British low-class accent, mangling my grammar, and pretending to be a "peasant": "Aye, m'lord, best t' get t' veggytubbles in outa t' sun afore they rots..." Status has many, many faces and uses. I know this doesn't answer your question exactly, but it's about all I can do -- rather like trying to tell someone all the nuances of British upper-class etiquette all at once. You'll just have to talk to your Tsolyani friends and see how they do it... Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //304 [Moderator's Note: Bob Alberti tries to shed a different light on the many ] [ pronouns for "you" issue. ] Thus Spake Barkerthustra: >It is as hard on Tekumel to judge forms of address as it is here. >I have offended feminists by introducing them at parties as "Mrs. >So-and-so," and I have offended traditional women by introducing >them as just "First Name" or "First Name and Maiden Name." I'd like to elaborate upon this slightly. For a long time I was intimidated by the concept of "25 pronouns for 'you'" in Tsolyani. Then it dawned on me that WE have many more than 25 pronouns for "you" in English, and we get along just fine. For example: "Hey, dude" "Excuse me, sir" "Bless me, Father." "Hey, mac" "If it please the Court" "Yes, officer. Thank you, officer." "Ah, Dr. Jones, there you are." "No, ma'am" "Ah, Mr. Gates, what a pleasure to meet you." "Straighten up, Mister!" "Senators, Mr. Speaker, Mr. President, I come here today..." "Buddy, can ya spare a dime?" "Devilishly clever, Holmes." "Bless you, Sister" "What's up, baby?" "Yes, Your Honor" "Excuse me, Miss, what is the price on this?" "Back off, chump" "Your Majesty" "Hey, thanks pal." Okay, you get the idea. These varieties of "you" are not grammatically the same as the pronouns in Tsolyanu, but FUNCTIONALLY they fulfill a similar purpose -- they establish the relative status of the speakers. When Watson speaks to "Holmes," he is deliberately NOT speaking to "Sherlock", which is more intimate, nor "Mr. Holmes" which is more distant. Their relationship is established by their form of address. Additionally many of our status-pronouns are based on one's title or occupation... because that, and not historical peerage, is how our culture sets its pecking order. Tone and inflection are also important. When one greets "Mr. Gates" the inflection will be on "Gates" because the person is of a unique personal status. When a sergeant dresses down a "Mister", he is using the same word in quite a different manner. Note also the Congressional custom of speaking to "Mr. Speaker" (the speaker of the House who presides over debate) when in fact a congressperson is addressing his or her colleagues, and additionally addressing "Mr. President" in such speech, because the President is held to be symbolically present. This is not unlike the Tsolyani custom of having an Imperial Seal present upon the highest dais of a meeting hall, with the Emperor symbolically present. So when one is intimidated by the complexity of Tsoyani forms-of-address, step back and imagine how perplexed a Tsolyani would be trying to learn our language... "They are lovers?" "Yes" "So he calls her 'baby' because he wants to make a baby with her?" "No, it's a term of endearment." "So does he call his newborn child, 'lover'?" "No, he calls her 'honey', 'pooter', or 'bitsy-pookums'." "But he calls his WIFE 'honey'..." "Yes, well, that's different." "I think I will go back to Sokatis..." Arjai hi Vaisoner, Priest of Ksarul, Cloak of Azure Gems Clan. Tarinu hiKirisaya, Warrior of Chiteng, Golden Bough Clan. Adlar hiFershena, Warrior of Karakan, Red Sword Clan. Bob Alberti, Priest of Ethernet, Programming Geeks Clan. ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //305 [Moderator's Note: This comes from a discussion that arose from the question ] [ about the Tlakotani and the use of hi prior to the lineage] [ name. ] On the Tlakotani issue. The Emperor rarely uses the hi- prefix, although it has been done from time to time by rulers striving for a less-Imperial tone. The average Tlakotani clan-member uses hi- when thinking of himself/herself as a citizen, an ordinary human being, and a member of society. When thinking of himself/herself as the bearer of the ancient Imperial tradition, however, he/she may tend to drop the hi- and sound more like a god-emperor. (Note: hi- is pronounced like "hee" and not like "hi" as in "Hi, there!") The hi- prefix is thus vaguely equivalent to German "von" but not quite... The princes and princesses tend not to use it (thus making their closeness to the god-emperor more obvious), but they, too, may employ it when thinking of themselves as clansmen and ordinary human beings. These nuances would be picked up by a Tsolyani but would be missed completely by a foreigner. [Moderator's Note: In regards to the "autonomous" clans like the Vriddi and ] [ Ito: } Only that both of these clans consider themselves autonomous rulers of their areas and so sometimes omit the hi- too, just like the Tlakotanis. Both trace their ancestry back a long ways and believe that they are kings in their own right. Phil [Moderator's Note: Scott Kellogg is looking for a back up copy of Swords and] [ Glory Volume 2 (Players Handbook) as he had a spill last ] [ week. :( If you know of a copy, or have one, you want to ] [ let go of, get in touch with him at ] [ spkellogg@indiana.edu. He also reports that he now has a] [ 5 new-player group, and that is why he wants the extra/ ] [ backup copy of SnG V2. ] ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //306 [Moderator's Note: Peter Bismire asks some more questions... The first deals] [ with a new Aspect of Sarku. (The actual description of ] [ this new aspect is below the Professor's response.) ] Here's a brief reply to Peter's questions. I am not familiar with the Aspect of Sarku you name. This doesn't necessarily mean that he is incorrect, just that I don't recall hearing of him. In the case of the secretive (one can easily say "paranoid") sect of the Worm Lord, this is to be expected. You are welcome to devise whatever deities, aspects, histories, etc. etc. for your own campaign, of course, but I'll have to take Th'unsauk under advisement. The name is not particularly Tekumelani, but, then, there were a lot of non-Khishan languages around from which such a name might have come in the ancient period when Aspects were first discovered (if that's the right word for it?). I assume the single quote in his name (Th'unsauk) is intended to be a stress/accent mark? It can't be a glottal stop in that position. It could be a raised comma, which would signify a glottalised /th'/ sound, but this is otherwise unattested in Khishan tongues or in any others nearby that we know of. So... if you want to have Mr. Thunsauk in your campaign, go ahead. Let me think on him as an Aspect of Sarku, however. I recall you asked me for an Aspect of Lord Karakan who is a patron of archery, and all I could think of is Mrachin‡ra of the Bright Rain of Death. She is not strictly a "patroness" of archery, but she was supposed to be the Aspect Lord Karakan took on when he faced the oncoming Legions of the Wanderers Between the Worlds on Dormoron Plain. She is portrayed as a young girl with long hair wrapped in a coil at the base of her neck. She has a quiver and a longbow, and she wears a leather wristband and dagger belt but little else. She has no sexual overtones, however, and is NOT a huntress, like Diana of old Earth. >TH'UNSAUK the Despoiler of Battlefields. He appears as a man-like >figure but with hollows where there should be eyes and great gashes >to the body including the abdomen with coils of intestines hanging >out, all the appearance of a corpse on the field of battle having >been ravaged by scavengers. To Sarku worshipping soldiers he >represents the triumph of the Worm over the battlefield, having >faced the worst that can happen to you and knowing that your God >has been there before you inspires a lack of fear. In the Sarku >legions the iconography has him in the unit's uniform and many >soldiers carry small talismans on their person. >The next is a progression to thinking about the approach of the >Vimuhla worshippers to a similar problem. In this case I see an >Aspect who represents the cleansing Flame of the funeral pyres by >which they farewell their battle dead. Does such already exist? Not that I know of. Funerals for the Flame-Worshippers are tidy events: the dead person is laid upon a funeral pyre, oil is poured over the body and the wood; the attending priest(s) recite the Summoning of the Lord of the Tongue of Fire, and one of the relatives lights the pyre with a torch handed to him/her by a priest. Everybody raises their arms and calls upon the god to accept the deceased, and later a junior relative (sometimes two or three) crushes and pulverises the ashes, then scatters them to the winds. Three days later, the clan (comrades, relatives, and/or friends) gather to recite the deceased's personal deeds and hold a party with food and drink for his/her memory. >Returning to the archery questions I assume that arrow-heads are >made of the standard materials: Chlen hide, bronze, iron etc in >increasing rarity. Another possiblity is bone: "The arrowheads >of the foothills of Hindustan are usually of bone, and so it is >that every bone they find of cow, buffalo, and ass from the shin >bone of carrion and slaughtered [animals], they have pickled in >asses' urine and rotten cess-pits, and every bone which is fatty >becomes poisonous. When the occasion arises they whittle them into >the shape of an arrowhead, and they insert them in the 'ferrule'. >Whenever they wish to shoot, they strike the head on something so >that it splinters. When anyone sustains a wound from it, and if a >fragment of such bone should remain in a man, it is like snake >poison." - Adab al-harb by Fakhr-i Mudabbir trans. E McEwen. You'll find what I had to say on arrows and arrowheads on page 112 of the Zocchi edition of the "Sourcebook." I hope to see it soon on the FTP site! [Moderator's Note: Soon in this case = some time this summer, (probably) ] [ Soon in Engsvanyali's case = this weekend. ] [ Also, I need to let everyone know, in the past few days, we have decided] [ to move, found the right home on Sunday, sold our house on Monday, and ] [ plan to move by the end of this month! Don't ask me how this all hap- ] [ pened, I don't know! :) There might be some disruptions in the reg- ] [ ular Blue Room traffic pattern. I am committed to getting Engsvanyali ] [ up over the weekend. ] ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //307 [Moderator's Note: Joe Saul adds the following to the Tlakotani and hi ques-] [ tions... ] [ Further Note: I botched Scott Kellogg's email address, of course... It is] [ spkellog@indiana.edu. Just the 1 g at the end of spkellog.] [ Sorry 'bout that Scott. ] I wonder if the current political situation is encouraging more and more Tlakotani to use the "hi-" in order to distance themselves from the conflict, or leading some to drop it due to a potential outcome... Tsolyani succession law provides for an interesting possibility, that may be more likely now than in a long while, or perhaps ever -- if an Emperor dies without issue, according to the Sourcebook, *all* Tlakotani who have not previously renounced the Gold are eligible to compete in the Kolumejalim. This includes those agriculturalists, oft-used in examples about clan hospitality, and anyone else bearing the name. I've seen no mention of Dhich'une's having any children; given his general personality and interests, it seems plausible that he doesn't have any. Were he to fall, and the powers that be decided that his reign had been legitimate, the next Kolumejalim might be a very interesting one. Granted that Tlakotani who have been tending rural estates all their lives, rather than training for the Kolumejalim, are unlikely to win the competition should they enter -- but the field could still have some possible "dark horse" contenders. (If they illegitimize his reign, I assume the children of Hirkane remain eligible, and nobody else is. I don't know where either outcome would leave someone like Rereshqala, who allegedly renounced then Gold already.) I'd love to hear the Professor's comments on this; it's been the subject of some speculation in our group. I'm also curious if it's ever happened before. Joe ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //308 [Moderator's Note: Bob Alberti provides the following about Dhich'une's ] [ progeny. ] >I've seen no mention of Dhich'une's having any children; By curious circumstance, I happen to know that he has at least one... I was at a local gaming convention, and co-Thursday-night gaming member Keith Dalluhn (tillek19@skypoint.com) was running a Tekumel session. I decided to participate in the game to see how Keith would do, and generally make his life miserable. I ran a Sarku guardsman. I and the non-Tekumel-gamers who participated had a great time, transporting a wooden crate of some sort via tubeway car, getting lost, etcetera. Finally we arrive at our destination, an underground chamber crowded with Sarku-emblazoned guards like ourselves. We disembarked and handed over the crate to the wizened old man who waited for us. He opened it, and from among the styrofoam peanuts of the Great Ancients (those things NEVER decay) he removed the glowing form of an infant encased in the field of an Excellent Ruby Eye. "You have done well," he told us, "and safely transported the Emperor's first heir to sanctuary here in the City of Sarku. The God will greet you with great pleasure in the Paradises of the Worm Lord. Kill them." This last was addressed to the copper-clad guards in the hall, who immediately drew their swords and advanced on us. Unfortunately, I didn't roll well when I checked my nobility. Had I been running a regular character, of course, I'd have known exactly how to behave, but I didn't know this guy very well, so I used the Thursday Night Rules(tm) and tossed a D100: 88. That's towards the bad end, so considering the circumstances, this fellow decided on ignoble survival. Pulling the Eye of Raging power (which he had picked up during the course of his misadventures) from the pocket of his kilt (do kilts have pockets?) he pressed the button and swept an arc of flame across the tubeway-car station. The old man with the baby was completely unaffected, but several of the Sarku guardsmen were immolated, blasting long cometary tails of superheated steam and crisped flesh against the crumbling frescoes behind them. With one exception, all of the other party-members dove for the tubeway car and slammed the door, pushing a destination button at random. "Very good," said the old man, eyes narrowing as he inspected the remaining guard from our party, "you are _lan_. [Tsolyani: noble] I think we have a place for you in Avanthar." Turning to one of the surviving Sarku guardsman he snapped "Enlist this man and see to his indoctrination. Then deliver his papers to my staff." Turning he stepped briskly from the smoke-filled chamber. The evening being at an end, Keith gave those of us in the tubeway car one roll to determine our fate. We luckily rolled an 01, the best roll. He determined that, arriving beneath the city of Kharcha Sark in Yan Kor, we were able use the treasure accumulated during our excursions to buy our way into a local clan and settle down to a comfortable, humdrum life as merchants. So Dhich'une HAS at least one child, (revealed to Keith by Prof. Barker for use at this convention) though doubtless he or she is not yet of age to seek the throne... Arjai hi Vaisoner, Priest of Ksarul, Cloak of Azure Gems Clan. Tarinu hiKirisaya, Warrior of Chiteng, Golden Bough Clan. Adlar hiFershena, Warrior of Karakan, Red Sword Clan. Bob Alberti, Priest of Ethernet, Programming Geeks Clan. ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //309 [Moderator's Note: The Professor responds to Joe's question, and confirms ] [ Bob's revelation. ] >I wonder if the current political situation is encouraging more and more >Tlakotani to use the "hi-" in order to distance themselves from the >conflict, or leading some to drop it due to a potential outcome... I haven't noticed much change. Prince Rereshqala does not sign himself "Tlakotani" or "hiTlakotani" but always "Kolumssankoi" (Prince). Princess Ma'in does call herself just "Tlakotani," as does Eselne. Mirusiya never uses "Tlakotani" at all but signs himself just "Mirusiya." On official documents his scribes sometimes insert "Tlakotani" or "hiTlakotani," depending on whom they're addressing, I suppose. >Tsolyani succession law provides for an interesting possibility, that >may be more likely now than in a long while, or perhaps ever -- if an >Emperor dies without issue, according to the Sourcebook, *all* Tlakotani >who have not previously renounced the Gold are eligible to compete in the >Kolumejalim. This includes those agriculturalists, oft-used in examples >about clan hospitality, and anyone else bearing the name. This is theoretically possible but practically almost impossible. Nobody would support a candidate who had no background, no training, no special tutors, etc. for the Kolumejalim. The person's clan would almos physically deter the audacious fellow, if friends, teachers, etc. did not succeed in doing so! The only Tlakotani who might *actually* go for the Kolumejalim would be those who had been trained for the "Gold," but who had previously renounced it for some reason or other. Some farm kid is NOT going to make it, and everyone knows it. If someone like that does try, there will be a gentle but concerted effort on the part of clan, family, temples, etc. etc. to dissuade him. If the kid persists, his own relatives and friends may quietly have him committed. Being a candidate costs time, effort, and influence -- favours and bribes -- and nobody without lots of all of these has a prayer of making it! (Compare our own American political campaigns.) >I've seen no mention of Dhich'une's having any children; given his >general personality and interests, it seems plausible that he doesn't have >any. Were he to fall, and the powers that be decided that his reign had >been legitimate, the next Kolumejalim might be a very interesting one. >Granted that Tlakotani who have been tending rural estates all their lives, >rather than training for the Kolumejalim, are unlikely to win the >competition should they enter -- but the field could still have some >possible "dark horse" contenders. Dhich'une does have a child, but this is not generally known. If he is having this child brought up for the Kolumejalim I would not be surprised. There are likely to be other dark horse contenders, indeed, since many of the clans seem to have received imperial children from suspicious old Hirkane. But Dhich'une's kid? Who knows? Maybe he's raising his offspring (spawn?) up to be a demon? >(If they illegitimize his reign, I assume the children of Hirkane remain >eligible, and nobody else is. I don't know where either outcome would >leave someone like Rereshqala, who allegedly renounced then Gold already.) Prince Rereshqala and any others who have previously renounced the gold still have a chance to change their minds -- right up to the announcement of another Kolumejalim and the setting of its date. That's the law. It is not often used, but the privilege is there. Prince Rereshqala also does not recognise Dhich'une's claim. Therefore, he says, his renouncing the Gold is technically null and void in any case since the Kolumejalim Dhich'une had the priesthoods call was not a proper one. He also says he is fed up with the civil war, and he must take strong action "for the good of the Imperium." This, in itself, is not a legal argument, although the Omnipotent Azure Legion used it during the "Time of Many Emperors" in 2,015 A.S. Vriggetsu Dnash, "the Usurper of the South," had earlier put forward a similar reason for his actions during the "Time of the Usurpers" in 1,699 A.S. It is admittedly a weak argument since it undercuts the basis upon which the Tlakotani Dynasty stands, but it sounds at least plausible as a last resort during a period of great crisis. Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //310 [Moderator's Note: The Professor responds to a question asked by Scott ] [ Kellogg about his campaign's central theme. ] > The main (hidden) plotline in my campaign concerns an ancient >artifact of awesome power. Deep beneath the surface of the planet exists >a machine which produces androids similar to Yeleth. The computer which >guides their construction has existed for the hundred millenia or so >necessary to achieve sentience. Now it produces autonomous humanoid >machines, intelligent and capable of their own agendas (conquest and >extirmination). Over the centuries various groups have learned of the >machine; thus there are clues to its location and factions competing for >control. > What I would like to know is how this plot would fit into the >"real" Tekumel. In my Tekumel it works great, of course, I'll keep my >players busy for years (hopefully). But a little amplification of my >idea might help wrinkle the plot somewhat and add a little more "flavor". > The plot is more complicated than this but I kept it brief so you >didn't have to read for an hour. Not a bad idea. The problem is that a major device of this kind would probably have been known to the Lords of the Latter Times, and they would have used it, misued it, and trashed it. Assuming that it did somehow escape the catastrophe and the ensuing millennia of free-for-all strife, it would have required raw materials in quantities too great for Tekumel's diminished resources by now -- and if there were enough resources, what kept it from making enough invincible Cyborgs (androids?) to take over the planet? Find a way around the objections, and it looks like a fun idea. I went another route: I decided on a totally organic route, the modification of DNA by machines that use very little power, small amounts of resources, and lots of careful planning. The Lords of the Latter Times had accss to this technology, and that is why organic, modified "bio-droids" can easily share Tekumel with unmodified species, both indigenous and off-world. You just can't tell which is which. Or who is who...? Enjoy! Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //311 [Moderator's Note: Alex Stojanovic asks some interesting questions about ] [ how people come to worship different aspects of the ] [ various Tekumelani Gods. ] >1. Is there a relationship between aspects of a particular deity and >"preferred" by lineages and/or clans? As I see it, high lineages would >adopt certain preferred aspects, of say Gruganu or Karakan, as their >special votive aspects. But, perhaps this is just a purely "personal" >choice... What is the Professor's opinion on this? It is not so much lineage membership that determines which Aspects one chooses but clan and locality. In Khirgar, for example, many "Stability" clans have large groups of members in the sects of Karakan and Chegarra. In Paya Gupa, the same clan might have more members, numerically, in the sects of Thumis and Ketengku. Each temple tends to have more influence, better schools, and more prominent members in places where it is tradi- tionally strong. Lineages, on the other hand, tend to "wander" (the Tsolyani term) from one clan to another. There is some correlation (e.g. Itos are Sarku/Durritlamish people from the CHakas, Vriddi are Vimuhla/Chiteng worshippers from Fasiltum -- and from near Tumissa, too). There is no one-to-one correlation, even so. There have been Vriddi worshippers of Avanthe, and Sea Blue worshippers of Sarku -- not many, but one or two, here and there, down through history. Worshippers do tend to choose an Aspect of their deity based on personal need and predilection: a Sea Blue clansman who feels a strong urge towards soldiering and warfare may choose a "more warlike" Aspect than would his mother or wife, who are Karakan worshippers also but not so devoted to violence. They might choose a "kinder gentler" Karakan: one of the Aspects devoted to maintaining an army, nurturing young warriors, and the like. >2. What are some of the most ancient aspects of Ksarul and Hru'u? Here I >am looking for pre-Engsvanyali aspects - preferably pre-Bednalljan. How >about ancient aspects of the Livyani Shadow Gods? Do we know of one or >two aspects that figure in the literature? The deities of the Bednalljans are pretty much lost, except for traditional names and legends that have survived through Engsvanyali retellings, mentions on inscriptions here and there, coins, pottery, and other non-perishale items. We know of Jraka, an ancient form of Ksarul, and also Chotl "the Blinding Sun," who seems to have combined Hnalla, Karakan, and possibly others. The Ksarul-like deity had an Aspect (once a separate deity?) called Enome (accent on the last "e"), who seems to have stressed what passed for wisdom and philosophy (though no modern philosophy teacher would admit that this quasi-religious, quasi-legendary doctrine was anything like philosophy!). As for *pre*-Bednalljan deities, I don't think there is more than a hint or a mention anywhere. We know from later sources that the Lords of Change in various forms, were indeed worshipped, but at this great time-depth, it is next to impossible to say exactly who was what, when, or where. Even with a long tradition of inscription, pottery-painting, carving important decrees on stone tablets and stelae, and magical preservation methods for documents, it all tends to get a little vague after a few thousand years... Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //312 [Moderator's Note: Bob Alberti responds to the Professor's answer to Scott's ] [ campaign questions. ] >I went another route: I decided on a totally organic route, the >modification of DNA by machines that use very little power, small >amounts of resources, and lots of careful planning. The Lords of >the Latter Times had accss to this technology, and that is why organic, >modified "bio-droids" can easily share Tekumel with unmodified species, >both indigenous and off-world. You just can't tell which is which. Or >who is who...? He-ey.. Sa-mthing about that sounds familiar... Thanks Scott. Keep asking questions like this. My characters on Tekumel already sleep badly enough, now they have to worry about encountering (or becoming) DNA-altered hosts for nonhuman entities... Just drop on by Arjai's fief east-northeast of Purdimal and you can hold his hand and stroke his forehead while he tries to get a night's rest! P.S. BTW Scott, drop me a note at alberti@wings.network.com. My birthmother's name was "Kellogg", so we're probably distantly related... Arjai hi Vaisoner, Priest of Ksarul, Cloak of Azure Gems Clan. Tarinu hiKirisaya, Warrior of Chiteng, Golden Bough Clan. Adlar hiFershena, Warrior of Karakan, Red Sword Clan. Bob Alberti, Priest of Ethernet, Programming Geeks Clan. ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //313 [Moderator's Note: The Professor expounds upon life on Tekumel for Bob, and ] [ the rest of us. ] For Bob Alberti -- and others who have wondered about the underpinnings of Tekumel's life-forms: Arjai and company have already encountered several DNA-altered beings. They may not have recognised them at the time, but they did manage to survive. Not all of these creatures are "monsters." In fact, one of my first objections to the old classification into sentient races versus "monsters" was that the latter were being labelled with a term that suggests violence, hostility, and danger: "monster." The "Monsters' Union" protested this discrimination, and I have since urged players to see that not all "environmentally challenged" beings are hostile! Sometimes it's the humans and their allies who act more like "monsters." Is this "P.C." enough for you? ;-) As should be obvious, much of this post is meant as a joke. All role-playing games, dramas, etc. require opposition to the hero(es), and hence villains and "monsters" are in high demand. Compare the great success of the "villains" of such films as the Bond series, Batman, etc. Please don't send me any mail from the Anti-Monster- Discrimination League! :-) More to the point: Tekumel has its own indigenous flora and fauna, plus life brought over from a myriad other planets before the Time of Darkness, plus various developments SINCE. Not only did the Lords of the Latter Times promote research into genetic alterations, but other-dimensional races and entities have been deploying their supporters, creations, and good-buddies over onto Tekumel for a long time now. Some of these last are just seeking a new home; others want to exploit the resources of the planet; and some others are just hungry... Makes for an interesting world, wot? Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //314 No moderator's note since the message is from me. I have had a flurry of requests for material to type. I am trying to send out stuff as I can. Thanks to Evan Nitsopoulos for typing The Temple of Karakan, and Kenji Schwarz for typing The Temple of Vimuhla. I have to scan some graphics for the latter article and proof both before they go up. Hope to do that by the weekend. Thanks to Tom Robertson of New Zealand, we have a new picture up on the site. It is a scan of an Imperial land grant. It looks great. Tom says he has some more stuff to send. I have been thinking about our foray into publishing, and the difficulties I/we had with Word for Mac and PC, (and even differing versions of Word on the Mac). Someone even wrote to ask that I release them as text, since their software couldn't read the Word 6.0 docs, though it was supposed to do so. The Professor and I were discussing this, and we thought about using Adobe PDF files. This has several merits. The Professor can use all the nice fonts he likes to (instead of the boring Times New Roman I impose upon him) :) and more importantly, the documents don't change from platform to plat- form. We get PC (Windows) and Mac coverage, and can still generate post- script files from them. Just think, ONE file for the ftp site (2 with the postscript version, sigh), and it appears exactly the same, no matter which platform. There are also free viewers for Mac, Win3.1, Win95, WinNT and a variety of Unix Platforms (Sun, HP, IBM, SGI). At first, I didn't like the idea, but it is growing on me (it means that both the Prof and I will have to shell out some bucks to buy Adobe Acrobat Pro). Trying to get the docs to behave the same way is just impossible with Word. Do you guys have any feelings one way or the other? Please email me if you do or don't like the idea. Well, we are coming up on our first year anniversary. I was doing some book- kepping tonight. We have 122 members of the list. Far more than I ever really expected when I proposed this venture to the Professor. He is quite happy with the list, and so am I. I hope it has met your expectations. Your questions, ideas, and interest in Tekumel make this a great place. Thanks to each and every one of you, from both the Professor and myself. Please give me some feedback on the PDF issue, as I will take it upon myself to go back and do the articles and both netbooks in the PDF format. Thanks for you input, and putting up with this administrative message. Chris -- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //315 [Moderator's Note: New listmember Patrick Brady asks questions covering clan] [ assimilation after a successful military campaign, and ] [ also about the Ito clan. ] >(1) What happens when one of the Five Empires annexes part of >another, are the Clans in the conquered areas recognised by the >conquerers ? Is there a process by which Clans could become part of >another nations status system or are conquered areas shunted to the >bottom of the heap socially ? Within Tsolyanu, the Ito and the Vriddi >seem to have maintained noble status even after losing independence >and several rebellions. What would happen to the Tsolyani Clans in >Chene Ho if Mu'uglavya conquered it ? Would Clans accepted by the >conquerers be seen as collaborators by other Clans ? Most clans are either multi-national (with clanhouses in others of the Five Empires), or are allied to clans within the Five Empires, or are clearly similar to clans in the Five Empires. Thus, when a conquest takes place, the citizenship of the newly-conquered clan- members changes, but their status within the clan structure does not -- or relatively little. Nationality and clan-membership thus impinge on one another only if the clan is traditionally hostile to the ruling clan(s) of the conquerors. Thus, a Golden Sunburst clansman from Sunraya is traditionally accepted as a clan-brother in Bey Su whenever he goes south, and a Vriddi clansman from Fasiltum will be accepted as a guest, ally, and friend of those Yan Koryani clans that are of high status and serve the Flame Lord (e.g. the high clan of the island of Vridu). Problems arise when the clans of the conquered and conqueror are radically different: e.g. the Vimuhla-worshipping lords of Mu'ugalavya and the current Emperor of Tsolyanu, whose worship of Sarku borders on the extreme. Clans have always been able to wander across national boundaries, and it is considered bad form in most of the Five Empires to hassle foreign merchants -- even if one's country is at war with theirs! Commerce transcends frontiers, as the Tsolyani pragmatically put it. To answer your specific question: if the Mu'ugalavyani conquer Chene Ho, they will favour the Vimuhla-wroshipping clans economically and politically, but they will still "show nobility" to Sea Blue, Golden Sunbust, Might of Ganga, etc. (the old noble, "high" clans). There will be disruptions at first, and some too-eager zealots may end up dead, but most folk will be allowed to go their way, trade, do agriculture (though with higher Mu'ugalavyani agricultural taxes!), and live out their lives. Now, if Paya Gupa were to fall, there would be more upset because that city is traditionally a Thumis stronghold, and one can foresee many brave young persons giving up their lives, rather than letting the Red-Hats in. Still, once the dust has settled, the Mu'ugalavyani will probably let matters return to near-normal. >(2) The Ito. I'm interested in knowing a bit more about Clan Ito as I >seem to be developing my own unofficial descriptions further and >further. From a few key names several years ago, I'm now into their social >and cultural interests, such as the Ito collection of zoological >skeletons and their sponsorship of Chakan ethnic crafts. Just how >different are the Ito ? How do they relate to the other >traditionally Chakan groups (Human Clans and the Pe Choi), the >historical detail in Deeds of the Ever Glorious suggests the >possibility of both alliance and conflict. The Ito serve as a sort of "Chechnya" for Tsolyanu: people who have been conquered and made to work for the central government. They have been treated both as friends and as foes. There have been wars and suppression, and oppression -- and there have also been economic developments, the inclusion of the Chakan people into the framework of Tsolyani society, and an attempt to get these tough forest people to fit into the religious/cultural mainstream. The Ito clan has tended towards secrecy and a (probably well-grounded) fear of outside influences. Unlike the Vriddi, who have blatantly declared themselves independent in all but name, the Ito have given lip-service, joined the Imperial bureaucracies, and sent merchants and traders throughout Tsolyanu. The Ito have always favoured certain Pe Choi and human groups -- those who serve Sarku, Durritlamish, or the Pe Choi somewhat- equivalent deity. There has been trade and some communication across the border into Tsolyanu, particularly with the City of Sarku, but there is still an aloofness that is difficult to overcome. As for modern leaders, Kego Ito has been the "front-man," while his brother, Mrido Ito, has been in exile as the "zealot." If you get a chance, go talk to Huruchai hiIto, the thin, bitter, arrogant man who runs the Ito commercial and political operation in the Chakas while Kego is in the City of Sarku pretending to be a buddy of the masters of the Worm Lord's city. Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //316 [Moderator's Note: Steve Foster adds the following "Quick Guide to Monster ] [ Recognition". :) ] >Is this "P.C." enough for you? ;-) Far too PC! If... a) It's clearly non-human b) It's not offering you a gift or prostrated in awe at your very presence then c) IT'S EVIL AND MUST BE KILLED!!! I find that this works 90% of the time, especially in Underworlds. Steve ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //317 Today is the One year anniversary of the list! All of you have made it what it is. Pat yourselves on the back. [Moderator's Note: There are some out there that don't necessarily agree with] [ Steve's hard/fast rules on (hostile) monster identifica- ] [ tion... Here are a couple of good natured rebuttals, and ] [ to his post and a shameless plug! ] Dear Chris, Steve's been playing other role-playing games too long, I think. :-) If you follow this procedure on Tekumel, you'll (a) kill lots of perfectly friendly and perhaps helpful life-forms, (b) incur the wrath of patrons, powers, and protectors of said life-forms, (c) get into some fights you can't win, and (d) give the GM reasons to off you when you slaughter too many of his cute critters! By Steve's rule, you would slaughter every cutsey, cuddly koala bear you met! (Mod: or Zrne!) ;-0 Those clams on the beach are also not offering homage either...! A difference of gaming styles, methinks. ;-) ----------------- ----------------- >If... >a) It's clearly non-human >b) It's not offering you a gift or prostrated in awe at your very presence > >then >c) IT'S EVIL AND MUST BE KILLED!!! > >I find that this works 90% of the time, especially in Underworlds. > >Steve Is it true Steve, that you're a secret adherent of the Purifying Flame? I've lost more good parties of dungeon-crawlers that way... Sometimes, especially when a hint of musty spice hangs in the air and a low-volume, high-pitched chiming seems just around the corner, it is best to tuck your tail between your legs and SCOOT! Even if it IS "evil and must be killed". A famous "Pechano" proverb (at least in my reflection of Tekumel) goes like this: "There's no such thing as one Ssu!" --------------- Shameless plug alert! Bill Cumberland writes, (Bill's was the first Engsvan hla Ganga registration to reach me, followed very quickly by 4 others.) I just wanted to thank the good professor for his latest work which I found both useful and entertaining. I can only hope that the response will be enough to justify further releases, and urge anyone who has interest to download it and to send in their bucks. [Moderator's Note: Well, in just a few days I have received a good number ] [ of registrations for Engsvan hla Ganga, and the promise ] [ via email of numerous others. Since this is the case, ] [ I have some items that I will be releasing within the ] [ next 2 days, that the Professor has ok'd for publication. ] [ The first is a Livyani Grammar, and the second is a Yan ] [ Koryani Grammar. (See the fonts dir on the ftp site for ] [ Truetype versions of the fonts) The aritcles will be ] [ released as Adobe Acrobat PDF files. (You will not need ] [ to download the font to view the PDF file.) I will add ] [ an Acrobat reader download link to the Web page. I'll ] [ try to have a copy in a new directory on the ftp site, ] [ too. We still have some other new stuff to release after ] [ the above 2, so stay tuned. It looks like the 1 year ] [ anniversary of this group is going to be one to remember! ] [ (Forgot to mention. I got Acrobat today, so it will be ] [ Tuesday or Wednesday before I get Livyani and Yan Koryani ] [ up. I will be testing it all out tonight (Monday). ] ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //318 [Moderator's Note: Steve Lopez responds to the More Campaigns response. ] Yeah, I know this is late... Back in the 70's (in the pre-source-material days), I ran a Tekumel campaign using EPT. Although unrealistic in light of the source material, we had a blast anyway. In fact, I recently ran into a bunch of my old players who are *very* interested in starting (read: in *me* starting) a new Tekumel campaign. The players make the standard arrival in Jakalla (i.e. they shipwreck their little boat). A priest (I forget which temple) signs them up to go on a mission to retrieve a little box from the caverns/ruins within Churu Peak. A long overland journey ensues. Using nothing but the random encounter charts from EPT, the players meet a huge variety of Tekumel characters (NPCs I made up "on the fly" to flesh out the random descriptions) and get into some wild adventures. Yes, they get the box. No, they never make it back to Jakalla. On the journey back through NW Tsolyanu (this was in the pre-war Hirkane era), the party's jack priest/magic user unwisely decides to con a tax collector into thinking that an ordinary stone is a gem. The spell eventually wears off and the players are pursued north into Milumanaya by an Imperial official (another player whose former character was murdered by the party in response to his umpteenth threat to zap them all with his Excellent Ruby Eye if they didn't do what he said. Said player had spent a couple too many hours playing D&D, I imagine). The player of the Imperial official was too stubborn/stupid to follow the clues that I laid out for him pertaining to the party's whereabouts, so when the campaign finally folded the party was still hiding out disguised as desert nomads and considering a move to another empire. Meanwhile the Imperial official was having his own problems: he was in Yan Kor asking a lot of silly questions and seemed well on his way to becoming the spark that would ignite the Tsolyanu-Yan Kor war in my version of Tekumel. There were tons of other incidents and adventures along the way, but I've forgotten much of it in the last 18 years. However, I do remember that I used almost no written notes and that much of what transpired was done on the fly and dictated by EPT's random charts, fleshed out by my own imagination. Sure, the campaign was not "Tekumel-authentic" (and consequently pretty stupid, even by my low standards) but it was entertaining enough that it has a bunch of 35-50-year-olds ready to jump in and return to Tekumel once again. I'll probably be starting a new campaign later this year (as soon as I finish cleaning out the basement so we'll have a place to play!). This time around I'll certainly be relying more on prepared notes. I don't read as much fantasy literature as I used to, so my ability to make things up "on the fly" is certainly impaired. Plus I now own much of the Tekumel source material and I'd like to make my campaign as close to true Tekumel as I can by looking things up *before* a session as I try to anticipate the evening's events. This time around, I'll probably start the players as nobles (since I'll be using Gardasiyal). The campaign will open with a dinner party in which the players will be clued in as to what has transpired since we last played (the war, Hirkane's death, Dhich'une's ascension, the civil war, Tsolyanu's loss of territory, the resurgence of the Ssu, etc.). Hints will be dropped as to some great mystery just begging for the players' investigation. Also the varying dais levels will allow me to introduce the stratified caste system of Tsolyanu (which was totally overlooked in the last campaign, again due to the dearth of source material). The rest can be revealed in due course... ============================================= lummra khatunikh churak himrukkal gual lum hidlanmu hiweshmatahen gual lum surimtokoi gual lum brufenul tsulajun muni ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //319 [Moderator's Note: This is a bit of a gruesome subject, but one of our list-] [ members asked, and others have asked me the same thing, ] [ just not so pointedly... The listmember asked, "What ] [ happens to Tekumel when Phil leaves us?" Here is Phil's ] [ reply. ] Phil states, "This is something we all have to think about. Like it or not." He also states that he is alive and kicking and as feisty as ever. He doesn't have any plans of departing any time soon! [Mod: Whew!] He adds, that if he does, he has heirs and a good lawyer that will protect Tekumel's rights. He considers things taken care of. He has had some individuals report to him that some interesting topics of conversation have arisen on the newsgroup, and that if anyone wants his input, they should fire a question to the Blue Room. Chris [Moderator's Note: Now with that unpleasant subject behind us, I just want ] [ you guys to know that we are still learning Acrobat, and ] [ that we will work very hard to get the Livyani and Yan ] [ Koryani Grammars out soon. I will be closing on a new ] [ house on Friday, May 31, so traffic will be light over ] [ the next two weeks. We start moving stuff over tomorrow,] [ and furniture next Saturday. Bear with me, as I will be ] [ sending messages to Phil, and posting messages as I can. ] [ UKers, take note: I have set up the method for you to register netbooks. ] [ I will post directions in a later message, and change ] [ the netbooks cover pages to have the UK registration ] [ address. Hope this helps you guys out! ] ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //320 [Moderator's Note: Kenji Schwarz asks about the reasons non-humans can seem ] [ to speak human languages, but not vice versa. A great ] [ question Kenji! ] >I have a question regarding nonhuman language learning for Professor Barker >and/or the Blueroom public. I hesitate to open up this can of worms again, >but I'd appreciate some clarification on a point. Regarding nonhuman languages: The original formulation that nonhuman languages cannot really be learned by humans was based on something so long ago in my childhood that I cannot recall exactly what it was. I think I was told by our Basque next-door neighbours in Idaho that "Basque is so difficult that even the devil studied it for a thousand years and could only learn three words." As time went on, I learned a lot about linguistics and saw how difficult it was for people of different cultures to learn each other's languages well and clearly unless they were trained in them as children. I had an Indian friend from Bihar at college whose /s/ and /sh/ were *both* a retroflex /s./ ("s with a dot underneath, which can't be shown on e-mail). His pronunciation of "sit" and "s*it" were thus near-identical! This caused him some problems... As I considered Tekumel's nonhumans and relaised how very different their oral organs were, I decided that it would indeed be very hard for humans to learn the lip-less clicks and clacks of the Pe Choi, the guttural rumblings of the Shen, or the gurglings and belchings of the Ahoggya. This is not like Tolkien's "nonhumans" -- elves have teeth, tongues, etc. much as we do -- but Tekumel's nonhumans are really differently structured. The same, I reasoned, must apply to their thought processes. I did give nonhumans the ability to learn human speech. This was partly done out of a desire to have them interact more in the novels and in the game. In practical fact, nonhumans have pretty awful "accents," and they do NOT think like us. I can recall lots of incidents in my own career when either I or my non-European colleagues just did not see things from the same cultural standpoint. I worked as a field anthropologist in the jungles of central India, in Baluchistan in Pakistan, and with the Klamath Indians of Oregon. I can guarantee that I did some pretty dumb things, based on my own misunderstanding of what was being done and said around me. Multiply this by a couple of thousand, and you'll come close to the situation of a human party in a Pe Choi village. I have tried to represent this in my novels and other writing, but it is very hard to get Americans/Europeans to understand just how different the nonhumans really are. On this planet we have trouble enough communicating with people from other cultures -- I mean *outside* of our standard north-European cultures -- and you can imagine how difficult it is to really get intellectually intimate with a Pe Choi or a Shen! So much for my reasoning. On Tekumel that's just the way things are... >It seems clear that humans of "official" Tekumel cannot learn nonhuman >languages, especially not those of the inimical species, except for a few >rare cases of human kids brought up by nonhumans. However, the Tekumel >world seems populated by nonhumans who have little trouble learning to >converse in one or another human language. Surely the Pe Choi priests and >Pachi Lei generals we read about must be fairly fluent in Tsolyani in order >to have made their way up through the human bureaucracies. The Sourcebook >clearly reads (sec. 1.711): "All nonhumans are able to master something of >the tongues of mankind. The reverse is not true. . ." As I said above, this is partially based on game and fiction needs, and partially upon what I perceive to be reality. The nonhumans have lived so long in human societies -- and have been so subjugated and influenced by humans -- that they do indeed master human tongues with some ease. Humans, on the other hand, do not grow up in nonhuman societies (except for rare exceptions, like Harsan). A human in Shenyu lives in a human enclave, rather similar to the modern American or Britisher in India, who grows up in a veritable "fish-bowl" that protects him from really learning the local languages and customs the way the old officers of the British Raj used to do. >Why, or rather how, is this possible? Are all nonhuman species more >linguistically gifted than any human? No -- just more conversant with humans from childhood on. The exceptions are the inimical species, who do not interact with humans -- as well as those Shen, Pe Choi, or whoever who live far from human contact in their own areas. These nonhumans have a lot of difficulty learning human tongues. There are also nonhuman teachers of human tongues for such species as the Pe Choi, the Shen, the Pachi Lei, the Swamp Folk, etc. These teachers are conversant with the surrounding human tongues and teach their pupils substitute sounds for sounds the nonhumans really have a hard time making! Sometimes there are only poor approximations, and the nonhuman has an accent problem. (Reminds me of a learned Indian friend, who claimed -- not exactly joking -- that the difference between "wine" and "vine" was due to a Western plot to keep foreigners from larning English properly! We have a /v/ and a /w/ and have no trouble with them -- other cultures and language groups find these distinctions hideously hard to imitate. Try "th" as in "thigh" or the voiced counterpart "th" as in "thy" on people not used to making interdental fricatives. More problems! In cases where children are brought across cultural frontiers and raised in a different human society, one does find almost complete assimilation. I am not claiming that humans can never transcend their own cultural boundaries -- look at all the very literate and perfectly "at home" immigrants in the United States -- but for adults fresh from the "old country" this is often a serious problem. I just learned of an elderly Pakistani who lost his job at a telephone interviewing company because too many people were hanging up on him, hearing his accent. He knows English quite well and gets along famously in it, but for strangers on the phone, it was apparently more than they wanted to put up with. My wife is also from India/Pakistan, but she was raised in Canada since age 12, and her English is almost native. She does still have a few little accent quirks, but she has never had a real problem. >Or is it that human languages are inherently easier for a member of any >nonhuman species to learn than the converse? The Pe Choi think human languages are a lot easier and less subtle than their own. The Shen think that humans whisper and mumble, but culturally and grammatically human tongues are indeed easier than theirs. The Ahoggya just make rude burblings equivalent to laughter. I could never get a straight answer out of them. >This has been nagging at me for years, every time the "it's >impossible to learn their language, unless you were raised by them, but >fortunately THEY can all learn YOUR language" situation comes up. If you have a "Harsan" (the "Man of Gold") character raised as an orphan in a Pe Choi village), I can see him learning the nonhuman language to a good extent. This is not true of people seized by the Hluss or the Ssu or the Shunned Ones, of course, since those species don't adopt human orphans. (They generally serve them with hot sauce and butter :-)) One can thus allow an "orphan" raised among a "friendly" species the chance to learn something of a nonhuman tongue, but he will be a little (or a lot) strange to his human contmeporaries when he finally meets them. Remember the cases of children supposedly raised by wolves? I don't know if those cases were true or not, but the kids were reported to have grown up with all kinds of cultural difficulties and differences. Of course, in your campaign you are welcome to have characters chatting away in high piping Pe Choi, or whatever. I'll keep the present rule, please! It keeps away a certain type of player character, who comes up with "I have made this wonderful Ssu friend, who learned our language and who is utterly loyal to me and wants to teach me all the secrets of his species." No, thanks. Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //321 [Moderator's Note: Listmember Lisa Leutheuser asks about travel times and ] [ Livyani eating customs. ] >How long does it take to sail from Jakalla to Tsamra? >(*without* stopping at, e.g., Isle of Vra) This is difficult. For simplicity's sake, check out the Zocchi rulebook (vol. 2 of "Swords and Glory"), where I went into this with some care. I used ancient Meditteranean data from some sourcebook I have now forgotten, and it gave what I considered to be reasonable travel times. I now cannot recall exactly what they were or how we figured them. I vaguely remember it was something like 2 days per hex on the Zocchi maps. But tides, winds, and lots of other factors can intervene, and one can only guesstimate. Any help from the sailors and naval gamers here? >How long does it take to travel via palanquin from Jakalla to Bey Su? >(assuming no real rush to get there) This is the same problem on land. Estimating 10-15 per day with a palanquin, and figuring a hundred Tsan per hex, one can count the hexes in the road and come to a pretty good guess. Secondary roads will slow travel, and going off through open country will *really* slow it! Again, please check "Swords and Glory" for travel times. "Gardasiyal" also has something on this, but I think we tended to round things off quite a bit. >Second, in the AOT (part 2, vol 2), it mentions in D.12 (p 12) that >Livyani eat alone in privacy booths. This is the usual practice, yes. >In Swords & Glory vol 1: Tekumel Source Book (the 1983 Gamescience >version), section 1.920 (page 93) describes a Livyani feast that >has everyone sitting at separate tables eating without sharing food >or conversation, while servants pass between tables offering seconds. >There's no mention of privacy booths, though it sounds like everyone >pretends that they are alone. This is permitted at high-clan feasts where there is a central dais with guests of honour, a host, entertainment, and the like. This does not breach the usual practice of eating alone but is a concession to the needs of society. The Gamescience statement is also perhaps -- I don't recall now -- a concession to the presence of foreigners (usually the player characters and their friends). The Livyani sometimes honour foreigners by "eating in their style" -- or as they name it privately in Livyani, "dining in the fashion of those who have not learned how to be completely human yet." >Has one convention replaced another? Or, are both conventions used >at different times or places or according to one's preference? Mostly the latter. There are also "foreign-oriented" Livyani who believe that some customs of their ancestors should be dropped and replaced by more "friendly" foreign practices. These conflict with "cultural conservatives," who are convinced that no concessions can or should be made to "outsiders." >(I'm not purposely trying point out discrepencies between old source >material and new material. That's fine. There are discrepancies -- after all, Tekumel is a big world, and I tend to forget little details. I am much worse on this planet: I'd forget my own name if it weren't printed on the label inside my coat (my name is "Sears?") ;-) Enjoy! Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //322 [Moderator's Note: This message is from me, but it is primarily for those in ] [ the United Kingdom. This message lays out the arrange- ] [ ments I have made for you guys to register netbooks. ] [ Please follow them carefully! ] Ok, This message is pretty much just for those in the UK. I have made arrangements with my sister-in-law to have checks mailed to her mother. She will deposit the checks in an account in England, and my sister will write checks on her US bank account to cover the registrations. Please try to get a fairly accurate exchange prior to sending. I don't want anyone to suffer a shortfall, as they are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts, for us. PLEASE NOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You MUST! make the cheque out payable to Alison Telschow. If you make it out to the Professor, they won't be able to cash it. Send all cheques to: Hilary Mears 'Tile Cottage' 16 Leith Road Beare Green Dorking Surrey RH5 4RQ England Again, the cheque should be made out to ALISON TELSCHOW. Thanks Everyone! Chris ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //323 [Moderator's Note: Evan asks some more questions about Tekumelani Armies. ] >1] What are the names of the Tsolyani, NCO (non-commisioned officer) ranks. This is on p. 79 of the Zocchi "Sorucebook." I think it is in part 2 of the Tadashi Ehara sourcebook, too. A Tirrikamu is the commander of a Semetl of 20 soldiers. A Hereksa commands a Kareng of 100 troops. A Kasi commands a Tsurum of 400. Above them are the 2 Molkars, and above them are the 2 Dritlan. The General is a Kerdu. Those are about all the actual ranks there are. >2] When a person joins a legion does the individual have to purchase their >own equipment, is it loaned to him until he dies (in service of course!)or >leaves the army. Most legions have connections with private armourers and suppliers. When someone joins a legion, he/she is given temporary weapons to use while training. Upon final assignment into one or another Cohort (Tsurum), the soldier may keep these weapons or buy his own from a recognised supplier -- and they must fit legion standards. A rich lad cannot go out and get a solid steel cuirass from his clan! No clan would be stupid enough to give him one -- and his superior officers would be jealous and see that the poor dodo was posted in the front rank in any battle! Legion standards are posted, and soldiers follow these requirements until they become at least Molkar or Dritlan level officers. Then they can hope for some fancy stuff from Mom and Dad -- and their clanmasters! Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //324 [Moderator's Note: Evan also asks about the language of the Pechani. ] >Just out of curiosity, what type of >script do they use in Pechano? Is Salarvyani script used, and adapted to the >Pechani language? Yes, Pechani is commonly written with a variety of the Salarvyani script. Tain't easy! One of these days I hope to get off a grammar of Salarvyani, but the language is so complicated that I dread doing it! Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //325 [Moderator's Note: Lisa Leutheuser asks the following about Mages and metal. ] Sorcerers who like gold (or other metal) jewellery must wear it when not intending to cast spells! Most such people don't expect to have to defend themselves at every instant -- any more than we always wear 45 calibre automatics around the house! (At least most folks don't...) Sorcerers "on duty" wear gilded Chlen-hide, bone, gems, etc. >I know that a sorcerer/ess can only have a very little amount >(~2oz, right?) of metal on them and still safely cast magic. >(a truly sad thing if one likes gold jewelry!) > >But what about being in the presence of large amounts of metal >but not actually touching it? (e.g. like being in an Ancient's >metal hallway but wearing sandals and otherwise not touching any >metal with any part of the body) Is the mere presence of so >much metal disruptive? This may get messy. If the magical potential of the region is very powerful ("Rich" areas like Livyanu versus "barren" areas like the Tsolei Arichipelago), there may be carry-over through thin shoes or cloth. I have even known very powerful sorcerers to cause magical explosions -- or just fizz-outs -- when standing inside a metal corridor or ancient ship! I always argue against doing this. Of course, in most cases, a sorcerer who stands on a table or even a thick mat or folded blanket can cast spells in a metal-rich area. Some ships and areas of the Great Ancients are also non-sorcerous- power-conductors, so that spells can be cast safely while standing in or on one. Take care! Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //326 >I have a couple of questions about armour production on Tekumel. It has been >written in various places that Chlen Hide chainmail is used, in the Five >Empires. I was curious as to what process is used to manufacture the rings. >With iron chainmail, the iron is beaten, or drawn into wire and then formed >around a jig or fixture, from which it is cut into individual rings or >links. Is a similar method used for Chlen Hide? Chainamil is made from Chlen-hide in two ways: some rings are stamped out: the "hole" first," the larger "ring" around it with a bigger stamp- punch. These are cut open, put together in chainmail patterns, and then sealed shut with a special substance that is the armourers' secret. This stuff is applied to each cut link with a little applicator -- i've never seen the technique myself and am going on hearsay. At any rate, the links are then sealed shut, and they become quite strong. The second method is also popular: it consists of cutting a thin band of Chlen-hide, snipping this into lengths, and bonding the ends together in links with the same stuff mentioned above. Also, small plaques and larger pieces of Chlen-hide are added to mail -- or sewn on leather or cloth, to which areas of mail are also sewn. The process is complex. >On a totally different topic, I noticed that prices are extremely high in >the Gardasiyal Rules, not only for armour and weapons, but also for >everyday, common items. Is this due largely to the war or are things just >normally very expensive in Tsolyanu? What are prices like for various items >e.g. clothes, weapons etc.. in some of the other, adjoining countries? Are >they on par with those given in the rules or are they more expensive, or are >they cheaper? The prices in Gardasiyal represent increases due to the civil war. Unfortunately, war profiteering is pretty common. Livyanu is in a mess, too, and its prices are high. Salarvya, Mu'ugalavya, and Yan Kor are cheaper, but anything imported from or through Tsolyanu is expensive! Arms and armour -- anything useful to the war -- are just out of sight. >I was wondering how much lighter (% - wise) are Chlen Hide weapons and >armour than iron or steel ones? If say a helmet made of iron weighs 9.0kg, >how much would the same helmet weigh if it were made of Chlen Hide? Would it >weigh say, 25% of what the iron helmet weighs, or perhaps 50%? I thought I touched on this in the old Swords and Glory rules. In vol. 2 (the Players' Handbook), I think I went into this, but I don't have my copy handy right now. I'd guess maybe Chlen-hide harness might weigh about 30% or so of steel. The latter is heavy, hot, permits no air passage in Tekumel's heat, and is so expensive that only the fanciest rich lads can ever hope for a suit or a weapon of steel. I urge Chlen- hide -- or, better yet, nothing but a light Firya-cloth kilt until the enemy is almost within bow-range! [Moderator's Note: Give that man a prize. I checked SnG v2 and indeed, on ] [ page 60, 2nd paragraph it states that Chlen-hide is ] [ approximately 1/3rd the weight of bronze, iron and steel.] Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //327 [Moderator's Note: Kenji Schwarz asks the following about Nyelmu and his ] [ Garden under Jakalla. ] >Who is this Nyelmu guy we keep running across every now and then? Anybody >have any dates, biographical data, gossip, or personal acquaintance of him? >"Wizard, Engsvanyali, displeased Lords of Stability, confined to >quarters," is about all I can get from the sourcebooks. Not much is known, except for legends. The "Garden of the Weeping Snows" is described a little bit in the old EPT rulebook, but this is about it. We know that Nyelmu (the name has to do with "sleep" or "dream" in Engsvanyali) seems to have offended the Lords of Stability. Some say this occurred at Dormoron Plain; others claim it was more recent and had something to do with the Heroes of the Age during the Engsvanyali period. At any rate, he seems to have been condemned to dwell in the Garden until the End of the Cycles of Time. He is one of the most bored and saddest individuals you'll ever meet, always seeking some new toy or pastime. His comrades in the garden include many who have somehow wandered in there and become trapped. Getting into the Garden is easy: one of the gates (which seems to open into a different Plane and not just into another area of the Underworld) lies in one of the lower levels underneath Jakalla. Once in, however, one cannot get back out. Not only does the gate not work, but the Pale Legion (Nyelmu's silver-and-white-garbed soldiers) will stop the fugitive and take him to Nyelmu, who may then have the hapless victim put up on a special torture display dais to beautify the Garden. Using an Excellent Ruby Eye when the victim is suffering the most then makes the agony a permanent moment throughout time! This may last for eternity, or until Nyelmu grows bored and tries something else on the poor fellow! I recall once when a player character decided to "show a new player around." He had found the way into the Garden, and -- having read the EPT rules -- he had thought of a foolproof escape plan. He took the newbie down into the Garden, met Nyelmu, had a couple of unpleasant brushes with the Pale Legions, and at last decided it was time to leave. They had a slave with them, and the clever player then announced that -- according to the Rules -- he would sacrifice thte slave and donate enough magical paraphernalia to make Divine Intervention absolutely certain -- and gain a poisitive result. I said, "What is the slave does not want to be sacrificed?" The player laughed and said, :"Well, i am x-levels above him -- I kill him automatically." "Yes," I said. "Roll initiative." The player rolled some number, and I -- witnessed by several other players -- rolled a 20 for the slave! Instant hit! "Can't hurt me much," the player jeered. I then rolled a *second* 20": instant kill! Down went the player character. "That's all right," he growled, "the new guy will now kill the slave and get Divine Intervention and get us out of here!" In those days, however, low-level characters could not ask for or use Divine Intervention, and... to make a short story an eternity long -- there they were... (I did eventually take pity and allow Nyelmu to let them out on some pretext or other, now forgotten.) [Moderator's Note: I hope you mean the new guy and the "lucky" slave? ] >What's the Garden of Everlasting Snows like? (size? decor? view?) Who >might be found in there? and what did the guy DO to get stuck there in the >first place? Read the old EPT rules, p. 102. It's rather a large place (area unknown), with pure white plants with cotton-like leaves and flowers growing thickly all over it. There are paths of blackish, shining stone running in crisscrosses everywhere, and the Pale Legion (usually in squads of 20 or so) move easily around in it. These soldiers are human[oid] but are clearly constructs. Possibly androids? Who knows? Nyelmu's great black palace rises at once side of the apparent cavern in which the Garden exists, and it has many rooms, colonnades, balconies, and areas too numerous to be gone into here. I had a map of the Garden -- as much of it as could be revealed -- in with the old "dungeon maps" of Jakalla. I suspect there may still be copies out there somewhere. >How aware is Nyelmu of what's going on up above in the world? Does it >still bore him? There's an illustration of him leering at Princess Ma'in >through a crystal ball with his phone book, one assumes, spread out before >him; does he have plans in mind for her, or is he just a dirty old peeper? >Inquiring minds want to know. Now, now! Indeed! Nyelmu is a serious wizard! He is looking at Ma'in with only a little bit of lascivious interest. Essentially, he is curious about her possibilities of becoming Empress and perhaps freeing him (it is said that Nyelmu's personal goddess is similar to Lady Dlamelish...???). At the time that picture was drawn, Nyelmu was plotting to lure Ma'in down into his Garden, then hold her hostage until the Emperor (or the College at the End of Time) made a deal with him. Without her, of course, history would be messed up, and many new and perhaps unwanted branches would arise and grow from the great Tree of Time. Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //328 [Moderator's Note: Bill Cumberland asks about Tekumelani Monasteries. ] >I have become interested in the monasteries in Tekumel and was wondering >how large the typical monastery is and how large a large one such as the >Sapient Eye in Paya Gupa. If I could get a feel for the number of priest >versus servants, slaves and others I would be most grateful. Monastries vary in size from 10-15 priests, 5-10 servants and staff (gardeners, cooks, janitors, etc.) to very large estalishments like the Monastery of the Sapient Eye, which is almost a little city by itself. Must be a couple of hundred priests, priestesses, acolytes, and staff, plus perhaps 300 servants, farmhands, Chlen-hostlers, guards, etc. Some sects (e.g. Dilinala) allow only members of one sex (in her case, women); others are co-educational! Thumis and Ksarul tend to be the latter, with girls and boys starting very young in the monastery schools, as well as students from local clans and families, right on up to college age. This leads to sexual encounters, naturally, but remember that sex is not a big "sin" on Tekumel, and as long as girls do not become pregnant -- and are not forced into sexual relations -- almost anything goes. Chewing Lisutl root keeps away the pregnancies, and stern policing by older temple authorities keeps the unpleasantries down to a minimum. Tsolyani society is different, too, in that sex is normal and expected, and there is a lot less pressure and mental upset associated with it. Members of a monastery may be there for meditation, for training, for study, or just to live a quiet life away from the strictures of clan, family, and politics. Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //329 [Moderator's Note: Peter Bismire asks about cartouches, and has some other ] [ questions about Legions, and Deeds of the Ever Glorious. ] >How are Imperial cartouches laid out, eg in a circle, a box, etc? Depends upon the calligrapher and the space into which the cartouche is to be written. I have seen mostly round or oval catrouches, but in some manuscripts a squarish box shape (with rounded ends) is employed to fit onto a line better. >There seems to have been confusion at some stage as to the secondary titla >of the Legion of the Portals of Death: 2nd Imperial Heavy Infantry (Armies >of Tekumel, Vol 1. & entry in text of Legion history) or 6th Imperial Heavy >Infantry (Legion list and section title in Deeds). Is this an error or the >reflection of the number having been "re-issued" to the Legion of Potent >Destiny? I'd trust "Deeds." "Armies" has a few mistakes in it. But it is also easily possible that this legion was given a different number sometime back in the past. That does occur. In this case, I must say that I have utterly forgotten just which is correct -- or both! Sorry! >I note in the entry for the Legion of Hnalla (4IHI) that the Emperor >Trakonel I is recorded at Tumissa in 176AS ie not in seclusion! This is >interesting as the Servitors of Silence were already in existence (OAL >entry). Trakonel may have been the last Emperor to command his armies in the >field until Hejjeka II. Does this seem right? Trakonel is so far back in the legendary past of the Second Imperium that anything is possible: truth, legend, outright deceptive reporting... In this case, however, I do indeed reacall the situation: some Emperors insisted on emerging from the Golden Tower in times of trouble, and Trakonel was one of them. Like Hejjeka II, he was powerful, big, strong, and charismatic. His troops adored him before he became Emperor, and he seems to have sensed that personally leading them was better than using his distant Imperial presence in the Golden Tower as a means of aweing them. He did come out, much to the eventual disgruntlement of the Servitors of Silence, who did their best to persuade him not to go out in public. They have had a lot more success with Trakonel's successors, and now it is very difficult indeed to imagine an Emperor coming out of seclusion. Dhich'une would never try it -- openly. He is said to have sneaked out, however, to attend a very important meeting in the City of Sarku. [Moderator's Note: Said!?! Mridobu caught him with his proverbial pants ] [ down. How did the Servitors take to Dhich'une leaving? ] >In the entry for the Legion of Mirkitani (7IHI) there is a mention of a >"Mirkitani's Castle" near Usermu. Should this be Usenanu? No, Usermu is a little town (not on the map, of course) farther south on the Missuma River. Some of my players have visited it. It's pretty much in ruins now. >Why is the Governor of Meku called "the Disposer of Meku"? This is the translation of a title granted the ruler of Meku by the Engsvanyali Priestkings. His distant ancestor (so the story goes -- who knows?) was given the right to "dispose" of "faded petals" after the Flower Wars. The "petals" were, of course, rebels, and their blood was called "the hue of the Red Garden." See the little article I recently put up on the FTP site about this period of Engsvanyali history. The Disposer is not mentioned there, however, and this is as good a place as any to do so. >In the section for the Legion of Lord Kurukaa (25IHI) there is a mention of >them taking part in a battle on the eastern frontier called "the Battle of >Milks" can I assume this should be Mmillaka? Yes. Good heavens, what an error! [Moderator's Note: Grumble, grumble, grumble... I'll go check it out...:( ] >In the entry for the Legion of Glorious Destiny (9Icb) there is a mention of >an Yan Koryani city "Maxis" should this be Makhish? Yes. I used to transcribe a fronted velar fricative (like the "ch" in German "ich") as /x/ in contradistinction to a back velar fricative (the "ch" of German "ach"), which I *sometimes* wrote /kh/. I later realised that these were just allophones of one phoneme, and I was being over-picky in insisting on a difference! There is also a real aspirated /k/ + /h/ in Mu'ugalavyani (e.g. "Kheiris"). "Khirgar," however, could have been written /xirgar/ with no difference. [Moderator's Note: I'll check that out, too. Peter also included a list ] [ of Tekumelani words that he wanted the proper accents ] [ for. ] I can't help you much by e-mail with your accents. The list is long, and there are no symols for accented vowels in the e-mail programme I use. I'd have to devise some sort of code to tell you which is which. I'll try to get to it, but it would help to have page references to these names. Most are Tsolyani, but some are foreign and require different stress patterns. Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //330 [Moderator's Note: Shawn Bond asks the following about Ssu "races". ] >I have noticed, while gathering bits of arcane and esoteric knowledge of >Tekumel over the years, mention (however infrequent) of encounters of "red" >and "green" Ssu (this coming particularly from an Imperial Courier report >submitted by the Governor of Fenul - I think) and I may have heard mention >of these other Ssu in Blue Room postings. Can anybody else provide >substance to these sightings? I do not believe these Ssu are actually >"red" and "green", but considering their aquatic cousins, the Hluss (who do >range from blue-green to a brick red: see the Tekumel Beastiary and the >painting guide), this may be possible. I would have taken measures at hand >long ago to prove this true or not, but my fluency of Pechani is rather >poor. Those hired swords I can find who do not shun my foreign character >have either gleefully brought back the corpses of "standard" Ssu or have >shaken their heads in confusion (one knave brought back a live Ssu painted >red!). It is indeed reported by explorers of the southwestern seas beyond Livyanu that there are enclaves of greenish-grey and reddish-brown Ssu there. The same is said to be true of islands in the seas to the east of the farthest coasts of Salarvya (territory occupied by the jet-black humans called the Nom). These different kinds of Ssu are just as hostile and just as tough as the grey Ssu of Ssuyal. There were obviously various "races" of Ssu in ancient times, just as there are of us Terrans. The biggest and toughest are the Black Ssu, who dwell on an island off the western coast of the Tane region far beyond the Plain of Towers. >Shawn Bond (still working on a good Tsolyani name) Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.